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Disagreement

TagLast edit: 19 Mar 2023 20:06 UTC by Diabloto96

Disagreement is when two people have different beliefs.

Aumann’s Agreement Theorem

Considered of particular relevance to disagreement between people trying to be rational, Aumann’s agreement theorem can be informally interpreted as suggesting that if two people are honest seekers of truth, and both believe each other to be honest, then they should update on each other’s opinions and quickly reach agreement. The very fact that a person believes something is Rational evidence that that something is true, and so this fact should be taken into account when forming your belief.

Outside of well-functioning prediction markets, Aumann agreement can probably only be approximated by careful deliberative discourse. Interest in Aumann agreement has waned in recent years within the Rationalist community, perhaps out of a sense Aumann agreement cannot be practically achieved by humans – there is too much background information to be exchanged. Instead, people now focus on things more like Double-Crux

External Posts

See also

References

(PDF, Talk video)

Notic­ing Frame Differences

Raemon30 Sep 2019 1:24 UTC
206 points
39 comments9 min readLW link2 reviews

“Ra­tion­al­ist Dis­course” Is Like “Physi­cist Mo­tors”

Zack_M_Davis26 Feb 2023 5:58 UTC
131 points
152 comments9 min readLW link

Prin­ci­ples of Disagreement

Eliezer Yudkowsky2 Jun 2008 7:04 UTC
20 points
26 comments8 min readLW link

As­sume Bad Faith

Zack_M_Davis25 Aug 2023 17:36 UTC
112 points
52 comments7 min readLW link

Dou­ble Crux — A Strat­egy for Mu­tual Understanding

[DEACTIVATED] Duncan Sabien2 Jan 2017 4:37 UTC
184 points
108 comments12 min readLW link

The Ba­sic Dou­ble Crux pattern

Eli Tyre22 Jul 2020 6:41 UTC
65 points
21 comments4 min readLW link

Gen­er­a­tors Of Disagree­ment With AI Alignment

George3d67 Sep 2022 18:15 UTC
27 points
9 comments9 min readLW link
(www.epistem.ink)

Choos­ing bat­tles (on the In­ter­net)

PatrickDFarley20 Jan 2022 15:38 UTC
24 points
2 comments4 min readLW link

The Rhythm of Disagreement

Eliezer Yudkowsky1 Jun 2008 20:18 UTC
24 points
65 comments8 min readLW link

Re­ply to Dun­can Sa­bien on Strawmanning

Zack_M_Davis3 Feb 2023 17:57 UTC
41 points
11 comments4 min readLW link

Up­dated Hier­ar­chy of Disagreement

B Jacobs28 May 2020 15:57 UTC
14 points
13 comments2 min readLW link

Va­ri­eties Of Ar­gu­men­ta­tive Experience

Scott Alexander8 May 2018 8:20 UTC
82 points
11 comments18 min readLW link2 reviews
(slatestarcodex.com)

Causes of disagreements

JustinShovelain16 Jul 2009 21:51 UTC
27 points
20 comments4 min readLW link

Rev­er­sal Tests in Ar­gu­ment and Debate

Davis_Kingsley13 Sep 2019 9:18 UTC
32 points
2 comments1 min readLW link

Do you fear the rock or the hard place?

Ruby20 Jul 2019 22:01 UTC
67 points
10 comments5 min readLW link3 reviews

Tak­ing it Pri­vate: Short Cir­cuit­ing De­mon Threads (work­ing ex­am­ple)

Raemon22 Jan 2018 0:37 UTC
23 points
70 comments5 min readLW link

In­tu­itive differ­ences: when to agree to disagree

Kaj_Sotala29 Sep 2009 7:56 UTC
35 points
36 comments4 min readLW link

Ba­sic Con­ver­sa­tional Co­or­di­na­tion: Micro-co­or­di­na­tion of In­ten­tion

Eli Tyre27 Jul 2020 22:41 UTC
40 points
7 comments2 min readLW link

Karate Kid and Real­is­tic Ex­pec­ta­tions for Disagree­ment Resolution

Raemon4 Dec 2019 23:25 UTC
101 points
23 comments4 min readLW link

Fun­da­men­tal Uncer­tainty: Chap­ter 3 - Why don’t we agree on what’s right?

Gordon Seidoh Worley25 Jun 2022 17:50 UTC
27 points
21 comments14 min readLW link

Ci­vil­ity Is Never Neutral

ozymandias22 Nov 2017 16:54 UTC
57 points
15 comments4 min readLW link

Bayesian up­dat­ing in real life is mostly about un­der­stand­ing your hypotheses

Max H1 Jan 2024 0:10 UTC
61 points
4 comments11 min readLW link

On the Con­trary, Steel­man­ning Is Nor­mal; ITT-Pass­ing Is Niche

Zack_M_Davis9 Jan 2024 23:12 UTC
38 points
31 comments4 min readLW link

AXRP Epi­sode 3 - Ne­go­tiable Re­in­force­ment Learn­ing with An­drew Critch

DanielFilan29 Dec 2020 20:45 UTC
26 points
0 comments28 min readLW link

A decade of lurk­ing, a month of posting

Max H9 Apr 2023 0:21 UTC
70 points
4 comments5 min readLW link

On “aiming for con­ver­gence on truth”

gjm11 Apr 2023 18:19 UTC
67 points
55 comments13 min readLW link

Prac­ti­cal Con­flict Re­s­olu­tion: A Tax­on­omy of Disagreement

eapache19 Jun 2020 2:25 UTC
11 points
8 comments10 min readLW link

A Prac­ti­cal Guide to Con­flict Re­s­olu­tion: Comprehension

eapache13 Jun 2020 15:08 UTC
29 points
0 comments4 min readLW link

Bet­ter Disagreement

lukeprog24 Oct 2011 21:13 UTC
89 points
84 comments4 min readLW link

Ac­cord­ing to Dale Carnegie, You Can’t Win an Ar­gu­ment—and He Has a Point

ChrisHallquist30 Nov 2013 6:23 UTC
111 points
80 comments5 min readLW link

Com­ment on “En­doge­nous Epistemic Fac­tion­al­iza­tion”

Zack_M_Davis20 May 2020 18:04 UTC
149 points
8 comments7 min readLW link

The Modesty Argument

Eliezer Yudkowsky10 Dec 2006 21:42 UTC
54 points
40 comments10 min readLW link

Don’t Dou­ble-Crux With Suicide Rock

Zack_M_Davis1 Jan 2020 19:02 UTC
81 points
30 comments2 min readLW link

Creat­ing bet­ter in­fras­truc­ture for con­tro­ver­sial dis­course

Rudi C16 Jun 2020 15:17 UTC
66 points
11 comments2 min readLW link

Ta­boo Your Words

Eliezer Yudkowsky15 Feb 2008 22:53 UTC
230 points
130 comments3 min readLW link

De­bate Rules In Ben­jamin Fran­klin’s Junto

namespace30 Oct 2018 23:42 UTC
77 points
8 comments1 min readLW link

High-pre­ci­sion claims may be re­futed with­out be­ing re­placed with other high-pre­ci­sion claims

jessicata30 Jan 2020 23:08 UTC
55 points
30 comments3 min readLW link
(unstableontology.com)

The Right to be Wrong

sarahconstantin28 Nov 2017 23:43 UTC
48 points
9 comments6 min readLW link

Bet­ter debates

TsviBT10 May 2023 19:34 UTC
57 points
7 comments3 min readLW link

It is OK to pub­li­cly make a mis­take and change your mind

JGWeissman12 Apr 2011 1:24 UTC
89 points
13 comments1 min readLW link

6 Tips for Pro­duc­tive Arguments

John_Maxwell18 Mar 2012 21:02 UTC
44 points
122 comments5 min readLW link

The Me­chan­ics of Disagreement

Eliezer Yudkowsky10 Dec 2008 14:01 UTC
14 points
26 comments4 min readLW link

Self-con­scious­ness wants to make ev­ery­thing about itself

jessicata3 Jul 2019 1:44 UTC
42 points
70 comments6 min readLW link
(unstableontology.com)

Nav­i­gat­ing dis­agree­ment: How to keep your eye on the ev­i­dence

AnnaSalamon24 Apr 2010 22:47 UTC
47 points
73 comments6 min readLW link

[Question] Books/​Liter­a­ture on re­solv­ing tech­ni­cal dis­agree­ments?

Hazard14 Nov 2019 17:30 UTC
13 points
9 comments1 min readLW link

Hufflepuff Cyn­i­cism on Crocker’s Rule

abramdemski14 Feb 2018 0:52 UTC
16 points
11 comments2 min readLW link

On Disingenuity

Chris_Leong26 Dec 2018 17:08 UTC
28 points
2 comments1 min readLW link

Change Con­texts to Im­prove Arguments

palladias8 Jul 2014 15:51 UTC
42 points
19 comments2 min readLW link

Au­mann-agree­ment is common

tailcalled26 Aug 2023 20:22 UTC
64 points
31 comments7 min readLW link

Reach­a­bil­ity De­bates (Are Often In­visi­ble)

J Bostock27 Sep 2021 22:05 UTC
17 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

Ex­plain­ing Cap­i­tal­ism Harder

jefftk17 Oct 2021 2:40 UTC
105 points
12 comments1 min readLW link
(www.jefftk.com)

But­terfly Ideas

Elizabeth22 Feb 2022 7:40 UTC
171 points
10 comments3 min readLW link2 reviews
(acesounderglass.com)

Deferring

owencb12 May 2022 23:56 UTC
18 points
2 comments11 min readLW link

Con­sider your ap­petite for disagreements

Adam Zerner8 Oct 2022 23:25 UTC
107 points
18 comments6 min readLW link1 review

[Question] What is a dis­agree­ment you have around AI safety?

tailcalled12 Jan 2023 16:58 UTC
16 points
7 comments1 min readLW link

Aiming for Con­ver­gence Is Like Dis­cour­ag­ing Betting

Zack_M_Davis1 Feb 2023 0:03 UTC
60 points
17 comments11 min readLW link

Hash­ing out long-stand­ing dis­agree­ments seems low-value to me

So8res16 Feb 2023 6:20 UTC
129 points
34 comments4 min readLW link

Fas­cists and Rakes

philh5 Jan 2014 0:41 UTC
58 points
71 comments2 min readLW link

Un­der-ac­knowl­edged Value Differences

Wei Dai12 Sep 2012 22:02 UTC
70 points
68 comments1 min readLW link

Change A View: An in­ter­est­ing on­line community

habryka30 Apr 2019 18:34 UTC
50 points
6 comments1 min readLW link
(changeaview.com)

Nice­ness Stealth-Bombing

things_which_are_not_on_fire8 Jan 2018 22:16 UTC
23 points
4 comments3 min readLW link

The Epistemic Pri­soner’s Dilemma

MBlume18 Apr 2009 5:36 UTC
95 points
46 comments2 min readLW link

An­nounc­ing the Dou­ble Crux Bot

9 Jan 2024 18:54 UTC
39 points
3 comments3 min readLW link

Why We Disagree

zulupineapple25 Oct 2023 10:50 UTC
7 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

[Question] Trans­fer­ring cre­dence with­out trans­fer­ring ev­i­dence?

Kaarel4 Feb 2022 8:11 UTC
11 points
6 comments3 min readLW link

Agree, Re­tort, or Ig­nore? A Post From the Future

Wei Dai24 Nov 2009 22:29 UTC
39 points
87 comments2 min readLW link

Strength­en­ing the foun­da­tions un­der the Over­ton Win­dow with­out mov­ing it

KatjaGrace14 Mar 2018 2:20 UTC
12 points
7 comments3 min readLW link
(meteuphoric.wordpress.com)

Ide­olog­i­cal Bayesians

Kevin Dorst25 Feb 2024 14:17 UTC
85 points
3 comments10 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

You’re never wrong in­ject­ing com­plex­ity, but rarely you’re right

MrMind3 Oct 2018 14:20 UTC
36 points
6 comments2 min readLW link

Rare Ex­cep­tion or Com­mon Exception

weft13 Oct 2017 22:02 UTC
14 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

In Defense of Epistemic Em­pa­thy

Kevin Dorst27 Dec 2023 16:27 UTC
54 points
19 comments6 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

A Quick On­tol­ogy of Agreement

ravedon26 Jun 2022 17:39 UTC
5 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

How to Not Lose an Argument

Scott Alexander19 Mar 2009 1:07 UTC
160 points
416 comments6 min readLW link

Iter­a­tive Ar­gu­ments: Alter­na­tive to Ad­ver­sar­ial Collaboration

matsn12 Sep 2018 15:56 UTC
27 points
9 comments1 min readLW link

Em­brac­ing the Op­po­si­tion’s Point

Yulia21 Aug 2022 9:51 UTC
21 points
14 comments5 min readLW link
(yuliaverse.substack.com)

Six Ways To Get Along With Peo­ple Who Are To­tally Wrong*

RobertWiblin27 May 2015 12:37 UTC
38 points
43 comments5 min readLW link

In­con­ve­nience Is Qual­i­ta­tively Bad

Alicorn26 Feb 2018 23:27 UTC
82 points
52 comments2 min readLW link

Flow­sheet Logic and Note­card Logic

moridinamael9 Sep 2015 16:42 UTC
46 points
28 comments3 min readLW link

The Sin of Persuasion

Desrtopa27 Nov 2010 21:44 UTC
37 points
63 comments2 min readLW link

Blind Goal­ten­ders: Un­pro­duc­tive Disagreements

PDV28 Sep 2017 16:19 UTC
19 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

Mal­ice, Stu­pidity, or Egal­ité Ir­réfléchie?

lionhearted (Sebastian Marshall)13 Jun 2011 20:57 UTC
32 points
62 comments2 min readLW link

Sport­ing vs. Herd­ing: two styles of discourse

Suspended Reason25 Jul 2020 1:56 UTC
5 points
4 comments9 min readLW link

Hot Air Doesn’t Disagree

Eliezer Yudkowsky16 Aug 2008 0:42 UTC
15 points
45 comments3 min readLW link

Wise Preten­sions v.0

Eliezer Yudkowsky20 Feb 2009 17:02 UTC
15 points
23 comments5 min readLW link

The Mis­take Script

jimrandomh9 Mar 2009 17:35 UTC
12 points
14 comments3 min readLW link

Oc­cupy Wall Street: Pre­dic­tions, Speculations

byrnema19 Oct 2011 0:44 UTC
−8 points
43 comments1 min readLW link

Fic­tion of interest

dclayh29 Apr 2009 18:47 UTC
14 points
16 comments1 min readLW link

Po­lariza­tion is Not (Stan­dard) Bayesian

Kevin Dorst16 Sep 2023 16:31 UTC
14 points
6 comments7 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

How to use “philo­soph­i­cal ma­jori­tar­i­anism”

jimmy5 May 2009 6:49 UTC
13 points
9 comments4 min readLW link

[Question] How to deal with a mis­lead­ing con­fer­ence talk about AI risk?

rmoehn27 Jun 2019 21:04 UTC
21 points
12 comments4 min readLW link

Dissent­ing Views

byrnema26 May 2009 18:55 UTC
22 points
212 comments2 min readLW link

The prob­lem with too many ra­tio­nal memes

Swimmer963 (Miranda Dixon-Luinenburg) 19 Jan 2012 0:56 UTC
121 points
342 comments3 min readLW link

Ar­gu­ment, in­tu­ition, and recursion

paulfchristiano5 Mar 2018 1:37 UTC
44 points
13 comments9 min readLW link1 review

Seek Fair Ex­pec­ta­tions of Others’ Models

Zvi17 Oct 2017 14:30 UTC
60 points
17 comments9 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Against Modest Epistemology

Eliezer Yudkowsky14 Nov 2017 20:40 UTC
67 points
48 comments15 min readLW link

The Tale of Alice Al­most: Strate­gies for Deal­ing With Pretty Good People

sarahconstantin27 Feb 2019 19:34 UTC
116 points
6 comments6 min readLW link2 reviews
(srconstantin.wordpress.com)

Proofs, Im­pli­ca­tions, and Models

Eliezer Yudkowsky30 Oct 2012 13:02 UTC
126 points
218 comments12 min readLW link

Bayesian Judo

Eliezer Yudkowsky31 Jul 2007 5:53 UTC
88 points
109 comments1 min readLW link

Fre­quen­tist Statis­tics are Fre­quently Subjective

Eliezer Yudkowsky4 Dec 2009 20:22 UTC
86 points
82 comments8 min readLW link

A so­cial norm against un­jus­tified opinions?

Kaj_Sotala29 May 2009 11:25 UTC
16 points
161 comments1 min readLW link

Let Them De­bate Col­lege Students

Eliezer Yudkowsky9 Sep 2009 18:15 UTC
88 points
144 comments2 min readLW link

Dishon­est Up­date Reporting

Zvi4 May 2019 14:10 UTC
59 points
27 comments6 min readLW link2 reviews
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

The Onion Goes In­side The Bi­ased Mind

patrissimo30 May 2009 17:33 UTC
8 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

Why There Is No An­swer to Your Philo­soph­i­cal Question

Bryan Frances24 Mar 2023 23:22 UTC
−12 points
10 comments12 min readLW link

Rea­son­ing isn’t about logic (it’s about ar­gu­ing)

Morendil14 Mar 2010 4:42 UTC
66 points
31 comments3 min readLW link

The Power to De­mol­ish Bad Arguments

Liron2 Sep 2019 12:57 UTC
98 points
81 comments11 min readLW link6 reviews

Can you elimi­nate memetic scarcity, in­stead of fight­ing?

Raemon25 Nov 2019 2:07 UTC
69 points
11 comments4 min readLW link

Bio­con­ser­va­tive and bio­mod­er­ate sin­gu­lar­i­tar­ian positions

Roko2 Jun 2009 13:19 UTC
13 points
53 comments3 min readLW link

Ar­gu­ing from a Gap of Perspective

ideenrun1 May 2021 22:42 UTC
6 points
1 comment19 min readLW link

Form Your Own Opinions

Ben Pace28 Apr 2018 19:50 UTC
33 points
1 comment4 min readLW link

Diffus­ing “I can’t be that stupid”

Hazard24 Mar 2018 14:49 UTC
23 points
5 comments2 min readLW link

False Friends and Tone Policing

palladias18 Jun 2014 18:20 UTC
71 points
49 comments3 min readLW link

Meta-tations on Moder­a­tion: Towards Public Archipelago

Raemon25 Feb 2018 3:59 UTC
78 points
176 comments23 min readLW link