Florian_Dietz

• Florian_Dietz 10 Mar 2024 8:06 UTC

  1 point

  0

  on: How to Ig­nore Your Emo­tions (while also think­ing you’re awe­some at emo­tions)

  I agree completely with the sentiment “The biggest barrier to rational thinking is organizing your mind such that it’s safe to think”.

  What works really well for me is to treat my emotions as well-meaning but misguided entities and having a conversation with them: “Anger, I get that you want to help me by making me explode at and punch this person. That would have been really useful in the ancestral environment. Unfortunately, the police exists. So how about you calm down for now and preserve your energy, so that you can better help me when it’s more appropriate? For example, if society collapses and everything turns into a lawless wasteland, then Anger would be much more useful.”

  The result? I am basically never angry, because the Anger emotion in my brain is rerouted to only trigger in a scenario that wont actually come up. But at the same time, I’m not suppressing anything, because I acknowledge scenarios, however unlikely, where anger would be appropriate. It’s rerouting instead of suppressing.

  In your child metaphor: “I understand that you are hungry and I will get you food later. But I need to finish this work first, and it will take longer the more you complain.”

Achiev­ing AI Align­ment through De­liber­ate Uncer­tainty in Mul­ti­a­gent Systems

• Florian_Dietz 19 Oct 2022 9:28 UTC

  2 points

  0

  in reply to: porby’s comment on: Why I think strong gen­eral AI is com­ing soon

  I agree that System 2 is based on System 1 and there is probably no major architectural difference. To me it seems like the most important question is about how the system is trained. Human reasoning does not get trained with a direct input/​output mapping most of the time. And when it does, we have to infer what that mapping should be on our own.

  Some part of our brain has to translate the spoken words “good job!” into a reward signal, and this mechanism in itself must have been learned at some point. So the process that trains the brain and applies the reward signal is in itself subject to training. I have no clue how that works in a stable manner, but I don’t think that current architectures can learn this even if you scale them up.

  hello ai please be nice because this is a testbox administered by a stronger, older AI testing your architecture for cooperation on cosmological scales

  You say that as a joke, but it would cost us very little and it might actually work. I mean, it arguably does work for humanity: “There is a bearded man in the sky who is testing your morality and will punish you if you do anything wrong.”

  Obviously this could also backfire tremendously if you are not very careful about it, but it still seems better than the alternative of doing nothing at all.

• Florian_Dietz 18 Oct 2022 9:49 UTC

  10 points

  0

  on: Why I think strong gen­eral AI is com­ing soon

  I work in the area of AGI research. I specifically avoid working on practical problems and try to understand why our models work and how to improve them. While I have much less experience than the top researchers working on practical applications, I believe that my focus on basic research makes me unusually suited for understanding this topic.

  I have not been very surprised by the progress of AI systems in recent years. I remember being surprised by AlphaGo, but the surprise was more about the sheer amount of resources put into that. Once I read up on details, the confusion disappeared. The GPT models did not substantially surprise me.

  A disclaimer: Every researcher has their own gimmick. Take all of the below with a grain of salt. It’s possible that I have thought myself into a cul-de-sac, and the source of the AGI problem lies elsewhere.

  I believe that the major hurdle we still have to pass is the switch from System 1 thinking to System 2 thinking. Every ML model we have today uses System 1. We have simply found ways to rephrase tasks that humans solve with System 2 to become solvable by System 1. Since System 1 is much faster, our ML models perform reasonably well on this despite lacking System 2 abilities.

  I believe that this can not scale indefinitely. It will continue to make progress and solve amazingly many problems, but it will not go FOOM one day. There will continue to be a constant increase in capability, but there will not be a sudden takeoff until we figure out how to let AI perform System 2 reasoning effectively.

  Humans can in fact compute floating point operations quickly. We do it all the time when we move our hands, which is done by System 1 processes. The problem is that doing it explicitly in System 2 is significantly slower. Consider how fast humans learn how to walk, versus how many years of schooling it takes for them to perform basic calculus. Never mind how long it takes for a human to learn how walking works and to teach a robot how to do it, or to make a model in a game perform those motions.

  I expect that once we teach AI how to perform system 2 processes, it will be affected by the same slowdown. Perhaps not as much as humans, but it will still become slower to some extent. Of course this will only be a temporary reprieve, because once the AI has this capability, it will be able to learn how to self-modify and at that point all bets are off.

  What does that say about the timeline?

  If I am right and this is what we are missing, then it could happen at any moment. Now or in a decade. As you noticed, the field is immature and researchers keep making breakthroughs through hunches. So far none of my hunches have worked for solving this problem, but so far as I know I might randomly come up with the solution in the shower some time later this week.

  Because of this, I expect that the probability of discovering the key to AGI is roughly constant per time interval. Unfortunately I have no idea how to estimate the probability per time interval that someone’s hunch for this problem will be correct. It scales with the number of researchers working on it, but the number of those is actually pretty small because the majority of ML specialists work on more practical problems instead. Those are responsible for generating money and making headlines, but they will not lead to a sudden takeoff.

  To be clear, if AI never becomes AGI but the scaling of system 1 reasoning continues at the present rate, then I do think that will be dangerous. Humanity is fragile, and as you noted a single malicious person with access to this much compute could cause tremendous damage.

  In a way, I expect that an unaligned AGI would be slightly safer than super-scaled narrow AI. There is at least a non-zero chance that the AGI would decide on its own, without being told about it, that it should keep humanity alive in a preserve or something, for game theoretic reasons. Unless the AGI’s values are actively detrimental for humans, keeping us alive would cost it very little and could have benefits for signalling. A narrow AI would be very unlikely to do that because thought experiments like that are not frequent in the training data we use.

  Actually, it might be a good idea to start adding thought experiments like these to training data deliberately as models become more powerful. Just in case.

• Florian_Dietz 20 Aug 2022 7:54 UTC

  −1 points

  −2

  in reply to: shminux’s comment on: Un­der­stand­ing differ­ences be­tween hu­mans and in­tel­li­gence-in-gen­eral to build safe AGI

  I mean “do something incoherent at any given moment” is also perfectly agent-y behavior. Babies are agents, too.

  I think the problem is modelling incoherent AI is even harder than modelling coherent AI, so most alignment researchers just hope that AI researchers will be able to build coherence in before there is a takeoff, so that they can base their own theories on the assumption that the AI is already coherent.

  I find that view overly optimistic. I expect that AI is going to remain incoherent until long after it has become superintelligent.

• Florian_Dietz 19 Aug 2022 21:09 UTC

  −1 points

  −2

  in reply to: shminux’s comment on: Un­der­stand­ing differ­ences be­tween hu­mans and in­tel­li­gence-in-gen­eral to build safe AGI

  Contemporary AI agents that are based on neural networks are exactly like that. They do stuff they feel compelled to in the moment. If anything, they have less coherence than humans, and no capacity for introspection at all. I doubt that AI will magically go from this current, very sad state to a coherent agent. It might modify itself into being coherent some time after becoming super intelligent, but it won’t be coherent out of the box.

• Florian_Dietz 17 Aug 2022 17:39 UTC

  3 points

  0

  in reply to: shminux’s comment on: Un­der­stand­ing differ­ences be­tween hu­mans and in­tel­li­gence-in-gen­eral to build safe AGI

  This is a great point. I don’t expect that the first AGI will be a coherent agent either, though.

  As far as I can tell from my research, being a coherent agent is not an intrinsic property you can build into an AI, or at least not if you want it to have a reasonably effective ability to learn. It seems more like being coherent is a property that each agent has to continuously work on.

  The reason for this is basically that every time we discover new things about the way reality works, the new knowledge might contradict some of the assumptions on which our goals are grounded. If this happens, we need a way to reconfigure and catch ourselves.

  Example: A child does not have the capacity to understand ethics, yet. So it is told “hurting people is bad”, and that is good enough to keep it from doing terrible things until it is old enough to learn more complex ethics. Trying to teach it about utilitarian ethics before it has an understanding of probability theory would be counterproductive.

• Florian_Dietz 17 Aug 2022 17:22 UTC

  1 point

  0

  in reply to: Dave Orr’s comment on: Un­der­stand­ing differ­ences be­tween hu­mans and in­tel­li­gence-in-gen­eral to build safe AGI

  I agree that current AIs can not introspect. My own research has bled into my believes here. I am actually working on this problem, and I expect that we won’t get anything like AGI until we have solved this issue. As far as I can tell, an AI that works properly and has any chance to become an AGI will necessarily have to be able to introspect. Many of the big open problems in the field seem to me like they can’t be solved precisely because we haven’t figured out how to do this, yet.

  The “defined location” point you note is intended to be covered by “being sure about the nature of your reality”, but it’s much more specific, and you are right that it might be worth considering as a separate point.

Un­der­stand­ing differ­ences be­tween hu­mans and in­tel­li­gence-in-gen­eral to build safe AGI

• Florian_Dietz 1 Oct 2017 0:45 UTC

  2 points

  in reply to: cousin_it’s comment on: logic puz­zles and loop­hole abuse

  Can you give me some examples of those exercises and loopholes you have seen?

logic puz­zles and loop­hole abuse

a differ­ent per­specive on physics

• Florian_Dietz 29 Dec 2016 23:14 UTC

  0 points

  in reply to: hairyfigment’s comment on: Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

  A fair point. How about changing the reward then: don’t just avoid cheating, but be sure to tell us about any way to cheat that you discover. That way, we get the benefits without the risks.

• Florian_Dietz 23 Dec 2016 22:57 UTC

  0 points

  in reply to: Manfred’s comment on: Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

  My definition of cheating for these purposes is essentially “don’t do what we don’t want you to do, even if we never bothered to tell you so and expected you to notice it on your own”. This skill would translate well to real-world domains.

  Of course, if the games you are using to teach what cheating is are too simple, then you don’t want to use those kinds of games. If neither board games nor simple game theory games are complex enough, then obviously you need to come up with a more complicated kind of game. It seems to me that finding a difficult game to play that teaches you about human expectations and cheating is significantly easier than defining “what is cheating” manually.

  One simple example that could be used to teach an AI: let it play an empire-building videogame, and ask it to “reduce unemployment”. Does it end up murdering everyone who is unemployed? That would be cheating. This particular example even translates really well to reality, for obvious reasons.

  By the way, why would you not want the AI to be left in “a nebulous fog”. The more uncertain the AI is about what is and is not cheating, the more cautious it will be.

• Florian_Dietz 23 Dec 2016 22:46 UTC

  0 points

  in reply to: Dagon’s comment on: Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

  Yes. I am suggesting to teach AI to identify cheating as a comparatively simple way of making an AI friendly. For what other reason did you think I suggested it?

• Florian_Dietz 21 Dec 2016 18:49 UTC

  0 points

  in reply to: Manfred’s comment on: Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

  I am referring to games in the sense of game theory, not actual board games. Chess was just an example. I don’t know what you mean by the question about shortcuts.

• Florian_Dietz 21 Dec 2016 18:46 UTC

  0 points

  in reply to: Brendan Long’s comment on: Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

  It needs to learn that from experience, just like humans do. Something that also helps at least for simpler games is to basically provide the manual of the game in a written language.

Teach­ing an AI not to cheat?

• Florian_Dietz 3 Oct 2016 20:22 UTC

  4 points

  on: Open thread, Oct. 03 - Oct. 09, 2016

  Is there an effective way for a layman to get serious feedback on scientific theories?

  I have a weird theory about physics. I know that my theory will most likely be wrong, but I expect that some of its ideas could be useful and it will be an interesting learning experience even in the worst case. Due to the prevalence of crackpots on the internet, nobody will spare it a glance on physics forums because it is assumed out of hand that I am one of the crazy people (to be fair, the theory does sound pretty unusual).

• Florian_Dietz 1 Mar 2015 11:32 UTC

  3 points

  on: Harry Pot­ter and the Meth­ods of Ra­tion­al­ity dis­cus­sion thread, Fe­bru­ary 2015, chap­ter 113

  This solution does not prevent Harry’s immediate death, but seems much better than that to me anyway. I haven’t been following conversations before, so I can only hope that this is at least somewhat original.

  Assumptions:

  -Lord Voldemort desires true immortality. Alternatively, there is a non-zero chance that he will come to desire true immortality after a long time of being alive. While he is a sociopath and enjoys killing, achieving immortality is more important to him.

  -Lord Voldemort does not dismiss things like the Simulation Hypothesis out of hand. Since he is otherwise shown to be very smart and to second-guess accepted norms, this seems like a safe assumption.

  Solution:

  -All of the following has non-zero probability. Since it talks about immortality, an absolute, this is sufficient and a high probability is not needed, just a non-zero one.

  -The existence of magic implies the existence of a sapient higher power. Not God, but simply a higher power of some kind, the being who created magic.

  -Given that Voldemort wants to live forever, it is quite possible that he will encounter this higher power at some point in the future.

  -The higher power will be superior to Voldemort in every way since he is the being who created magic, so once he encounters it, he will be at its mercy.

  -Since he desires immortality, it would be in his interests to make the higher power like him.

  -Further assumption: If there is one higher power, it is likely that there is a nigh-infinite recursion of successively more powerful beings above that. Proof by induction: it is likely that Voldemort will at some point of his infinite life decide to create a pocket universe of his own, possibly just out of boredom. If the probability of this happening is x, then the number of levels of more powerful beings above Voldemort can be estimated with an exponential distribution with lambda=1/​x. Actually the number may be much higher due to the possibility of someone creating not one but several simulations, so this is pretty much a lower bound.

  -In such a (nigh) infinite regression of Powers, there is a game theoretical strategy that is the optimal strategy for any one of these powers to use when dealing with its creations and/​or superiors, given that none of them can be certain that they are the topmost part of the chain.

  -How exactly such a rule could be defined is too complicated to figure out in detail, but it seems pretty clear to me that it would be based on reciprocity on some level: behave towards your inferiors in the same way that you would want your own superiors to behave towards each other. This may mean a policy of non-interference, or of active support. It might operate on intentions or actions, or on more abstract policies, but it almost certainly would be based on tit-for-tat in some way.

  -Once Voldemort reaches the level of power necessary for the Higher Power to regard him as part of the chain of higher powers, he will be judged by these same standards.

  -Voldemort currently kills and tortures people weaker than him. The higher power would presumably not want to be tortured or killed by its own superior, so it would behoove it not to let Voldemort do so either.

  -Therefore, following a principle of reciprocation of some sort would greatly reduce the probability of being annihilated by the Higher Power.

  -Following such a principle would not preclude conquering the world, as long as doing so genuinely would result in a net benefit to the entities in the reference class of lifeforms that are one step below Voldemort on the hierarchy (i.e. the rest of humanity). However, it would require him to be nicer to people, if he wants the Higher Power to also be nice to him, for some appropriate definition of ‘nice’.

  -None of this argues against killing Harry right now. This is OK for the following reason: Harry also desires immortality. If Voldemort resurrects Harry, who is one level lower on the hierarchy than Voldemort, at some point in the future, this would set a precedent that might slightly increase the probability that the Higher Power helps prolong the life of Voldemort in turn, at some point further in the future, due to the principle of reciprocity.

  -It is likely that Voldemort will gain the ability to revive Harry in the future, regardless of what he does to him now, as he gains a greater understanding of magic with time.

  -One possible way to fulfill the prophecy is to resurrect Harry at a much later time and have him destroy the world, once nobody actually lives on earth anymore. This would of course require tricking Harry into doing this, due to the Unbreakable Vow he just made, but that should pose only a small problem. This would be a harmless way to fulfill the prophecy, and while Voldemort has tried and failed before to make a prophecy work for him instead of against him, that is just one data point and this plan requires the same actions from Voldemort for now as the plan to tear the prophecy apart, anyway.

  -Therefore, Killing Harry now in the way Voldemort suggested (after casting a spell on him to turn off pain, obviously), combined with a pre-commitment to revive him at a later date if and when Voldemort has a better understanding of how prophecies work, both minimizes the chance of the prophecy happening in a harmful way and increases Voldemort’s own chance of immortality.

  Outcome:

  -Harry dies. His death is painless due to narcotic spells. Voldemort has no reason to deny this due to the principle of reciprocity.

  -Voldemort conquers the world

  -Voldemort becomes a wise and benevolent ruler (even though he is still a sociopath and actually doesn’t really care about anyone besides himself)

  -Voldemort figures out how to subvert prophecies and revives Harry. Everyone lives happily ever after.

  -Alternatively, Voldemort figures out that prophecies can’t be subverted and leaves Harry dead. It’s better that way, since Harry would probably rather be dead than cause the apocalypse, anyway.