AI X risk is almost perfectly designed to oneshot people with OCD. The combination of absurdly high stakes, uncertainty, and a community dedicated to discussing it 24⁄7 with inquiry considered a virtue is tailor made to trigger one’s OCD. Further, it’s not exactly a subject that therapists would take seriously though, for better or for worse (and definitely for worse), I imagine that’s starting to change.
I had wondered for a while why I responded so much worse on a mental level than basically anyone else and, upon being diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, finally have an explanation. The typical treatment for OCD beyond medication is quite effective and called Exposure Response Therapy. With it, you practice not partaking in your compulsions and noticing that nothing bad happened. This sort of thing would work for someone obsessed with cleanliness but not someone who thinks there’s a 30% chance that we will all be dead in 10 years. That being said, my dealing with X risk is very characteristic of OCD in a way which makes me think I could respond well to therapy, however the treatment would likely, though not necessarily, be more bespoke than is typical.
In terms of how I was specifically affected: I would run and rerun the same anti-doom arguments in my head over and over, and was literally unable to stop thinking about it to the point of being dysfunctional. I’m better now, though not where I’d like to be.
I was wondering if there is anyone here who with OCD who would be willing to talk with me about their experience and what sorts of treatments they did to get better or put me in contact with someone who could. I would be willing to pay up to 1000$ for this, though given the unverifiable nature I’m not sure how I would go about this.
I had a similar experience, though this was before I became aware of AI x-risks, and it was related to the risk of nuclear war. I was constantly checking the news, constantly vigilant for any sounds resembling an airstrike alarm, was constantly checking the window during partly cloudy days, etc. The way I dealt with it was basically by accepting death, and then, when I learned of AI x-risks, this wasn’t that much of a hit.
(DMed my top recommendation, someone who used to have pretty bad OCD, helped resolve someone else’s and mostly their own, and is full time doing x-risk reduction work)
This was my experience for the majority of last year- after learning about various kinds of risk, I tried consuming lots of the same anti-doom-y material in response (e.g., critiques of short timeline models, disagreements w/ major AI alignment folks, generic AI skepticism off of lesswrong), and scrubbing the internet for emotional strategies. None of this reading helped me and I only became super unproductive. I also don’t think I was afraid of death at the time, it was more the absurdity of the situation.
What seems to be working for me is: recognizing that I have ocd, making a sincere effort to avoid reading these topics for a while (6 months), and finding additional things to do. Nowaways I feel like I can assess x-risk stuff more critically
I would respect your preferences and delete the comment, but it looks like I cannot (probably because someone (you) responded to it), so I guess the power to do so is in your hands.
First, I’m not a therapist, and I don’t have OCD so free free to disregard, but I had a thought that might be useful.
Your compulsion is you worrying about X risk, but specifically not doing anything real about X risk, right? Like, the problem is not that you are working on X risk too hard, the problem is that your worries prevent you from doing much of any sort of work. I would try to concentrate on noticing that difference. Like, say you don’t worry about X risk for a day, does that mean you did less on it? If not, then your worries probably don’t do anything productive, and noticing that might help. Maybe this can work within the exposure release therapy framework?
If you think you have something productive to contribute, you might set aside some amount of time to work on it, but then try to quit thinking about it the rest of the time, and then try to notice that that time becomes more productive with less worries at 3 AM.
Thank you for the response. My compulsion is more like constantly rehashing the low p(doom) arguments in my head or even reopening the same LessWrong posts; eg I could probably recite Garriga-Alonso’s “Alignment Will Be Easy By Default” post word for word. Short term it offers some reprieve, but long term the main effect is just keeping me thinking about x-risk for longer.
This does differ from traditional OCD compulsions in a way I think works in my favor. When I leave my house I quadruple check the lock, convinced in some strange way that if I don’t check again the door will be unlocked and someone will rob me. The compulsion “works” insofar as checking relieves the anxiety because I believe, in some strange way, that it causally matters. Rehashing old arguments doesn’t have that property. It gives me temporary relief in a way that’s characteristic of a compulsion, but I don’t believe on any level that my thoughts causally affect our chances of making it out of this alive.
Because of that, I’ve started trying to just let the “we are all going to die” thought sit in my head without fighting it. Not repeating to myself that empirically alignment seems easier than anticipated, not rehearsing arguments about takeoff speeds. Just having the thought and not engaging. It’s been quite successful so far. The lock checking is a different story; I kinda can’t fight that impulse yet since checking the lock, at least in my mind, does have a causal effect on whether my house gets robbed. But I’m optimistic therapy can help there.
Does anyone else feel like export control discussion at the moment is a bit hyperbolic? I don’t expect human level AGI to be achieved for about 5 years and by then the current iterations of GPUs will be obsolete. It certainly doesn’t give me confidence in this administration’s ability to do things, but selling China advanced chips now is probably fine if we stop in like 3 years. Which hopefully we will.
JD Vance very possibly knows who Zvi Mowshowitz is. Vance used to play the Magic the Gathering deck “Yawgmoth’s Bargain” which was largely designed by Zvi. Not sure what, if any, implications this has but certainly an interesting piece of trivia.
I would put “Doesn’t know Zvi, played magic” at number two. I think you might be overestimating either how well known Zvi is or how likely one would be to know Zvi conditional on playing magic in the late nineties/early 2000s.
AI X risk is almost perfectly designed to oneshot people with OCD. The combination of absurdly high stakes, uncertainty, and a community dedicated to discussing it 24⁄7 with inquiry considered a virtue is tailor made to trigger one’s OCD. Further, it’s not exactly a subject that therapists would take seriously though, for better or for worse (and definitely for worse), I imagine that’s starting to change.
I had wondered for a while why I responded so much worse on a mental level than basically anyone else and, upon being diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, finally have an explanation. The typical treatment for OCD beyond medication is quite effective and called Exposure Response Therapy. With it, you practice not partaking in your compulsions and noticing that nothing bad happened. This sort of thing would work for someone obsessed with cleanliness but not someone who thinks there’s a 30% chance that we will all be dead in 10 years. That being said, my dealing with X risk is very characteristic of OCD in a way which makes me think I could respond well to therapy, however the treatment would likely, though not necessarily, be more bespoke than is typical.
In terms of how I was specifically affected: I would run and rerun the same anti-doom arguments in my head over and over, and was literally unable to stop thinking about it to the point of being dysfunctional. I’m better now, though not where I’d like to be.
I was wondering if there is anyone here who with OCD who would be willing to talk with me about their experience and what sorts of treatments they did to get better or put me in contact with someone who could. I would be willing to pay up to 1000$ for this, though given the unverifiable nature I’m not sure how I would go about this.
I had a similar experience, though this was before I became aware of AI x-risks, and it was related to the risk of nuclear war. I was constantly checking the news, constantly vigilant for any sounds resembling an airstrike alarm, was constantly checking the window during partly cloudy days, etc. The way I dealt with it was basically by accepting death, and then, when I learned of AI x-risks, this wasn’t that much of a hit.
(DMed my top recommendation, someone who used to have pretty bad OCD, helped resolve someone else’s and mostly their own, and is full time doing x-risk reduction work)
(this went well enough that Szeth offered the bounty to me and I requested it go to one of my top AIS charities)
I’m sorry to hear you’ve had these troubles. I assume that this is why your username is Szeth?
(I hope that you find treatment that helps you!)
Thanks for the comment, though my name is Szeth because Seth was taken. I didn’t even enjoy The Way of Kings that much.
This was my experience for the majority of last year- after learning about various kinds of risk, I tried consuming lots of the same anti-doom-y material in response (e.g., critiques of short timeline models, disagreements w/ major AI alignment folks, generic AI skepticism off of lesswrong), and scrubbing the internet for emotional strategies. None of this reading helped me and I only became super unproductive. I also don’t think I was afraid of death at the time, it was more the absurdity of the situation.
What seems to be working for me is: recognizing that I have ocd, making a sincere effort to avoid reading these topics for a while (6 months), and finding additional things to do. Nowaways I feel like I can assess x-risk stuff more critically
Thank you for the response.
.
.
I would respect your preferences and delete the comment, but it looks like I cannot (probably because someone (you) responded to it), so I guess the power to do so is in your hands.
Thank you
By “for worse” i mean that it is probably taken more seriously because AI capabilities have advanced so much, which is not something that is good imo
First, I’m not a therapist, and I don’t have OCD so free free to disregard, but I had a thought that might be useful.
Your compulsion is you worrying about X risk, but specifically not doing anything real about X risk, right? Like, the problem is not that you are working on X risk too hard, the problem is that your worries prevent you from doing much of any sort of work. I would try to concentrate on noticing that difference. Like, say you don’t worry about X risk for a day, does that mean you did less on it? If not, then your worries probably don’t do anything productive, and noticing that might help. Maybe this can work within the exposure release therapy framework?
If you think you have something productive to contribute, you might set aside some amount of time to work on it, but then try to quit thinking about it the rest of the time, and then try to notice that that time becomes more productive with less worries at 3 AM.
Thank you for the response. My compulsion is more like constantly rehashing the low p(doom) arguments in my head or even reopening the same LessWrong posts; eg I could probably recite Garriga-Alonso’s “Alignment Will Be Easy By Default” post word for word. Short term it offers some reprieve, but long term the main effect is just keeping me thinking about x-risk for longer.
This does differ from traditional OCD compulsions in a way I think works in my favor. When I leave my house I quadruple check the lock, convinced in some strange way that if I don’t check again the door will be unlocked and someone will rob me. The compulsion “works” insofar as checking relieves the anxiety because I believe, in some strange way, that it causally matters. Rehashing old arguments doesn’t have that property. It gives me temporary relief in a way that’s characteristic of a compulsion, but I don’t believe on any level that my thoughts causally affect our chances of making it out of this alive.
Because of that, I’ve started trying to just let the “we are all going to die” thought sit in my head without fighting it. Not repeating to myself that empirically alignment seems easier than anticipated, not rehearsing arguments about takeoff speeds. Just having the thought and not engaging. It’s been quite successful so far. The lock checking is a different story; I kinda can’t fight that impulse yet since checking the lock, at least in my mind, does have a causal effect on whether my house gets robbed. But I’m optimistic therapy can help there.
Does anyone else feel like export control discussion at the moment is a bit hyperbolic? I don’t expect human level AGI to be achieved for about 5 years and by then the current iterations of GPUs will be obsolete. It certainly doesn’t give me confidence in this administration’s ability to do things, but selling China advanced chips now is probably fine if we stop in like 3 years. Which hopefully we will.
JD Vance very possibly knows who Zvi Mowshowitz is. Vance used to play the Magic the Gathering deck “Yawgmoth’s Bargain” which was largely designed by Zvi. Not sure what, if any, implications this has but certainly an interesting piece of trivia.
I’m more surprised to learn Vance played MTG than to learn he knows ZVI
This doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. You think it’s more likely that JD knows Zvi but didn’t play magic than played magic but doesn’t know Zvi?
This would have been my expectation, from most likely to least likely:
Doesn’t know Zvi, didn’t play magic
Knows Zvi, didn’t play magic
Knows Zvi, played magic
Doesn’t know Zvi, played magic
I expect we differ only on the ordering of the middle two
I would put “Doesn’t know Zvi, played magic” at number two. I think you might be overestimating either how well known Zvi is or how likely one would be to know Zvi conditional on playing magic in the late nineties/early 2000s.
base rates, man, base rates.
Yeah, with all due respect, more people play Magic than know Zvi. (Outside of LessWrong.)