I (and my friends) might be more of a woman as per this criterion. lol. (for reference I happen to be part of the cluster which my society recognises as with the label “young men”; I am mostly neutral on most of these, and lean womanly on others)
Another young man here largely identified as a woman by many of these criteria. I’m not sure that the author’s post generalises past their own experience, although I do agree with some of the statements as correct societal commentary.
My rough guess is that about 20% of men give up on caring about respect. My best theory is that they don’t think they can get it, so they stop putting effort into it, or seek it out only in very restricted ways that make “respect” stop feeling like the right word to describe what they’re doing, like getting good at a video game that no one ever sees them play or cultivating a sense that they are secretly better than everyone else in a way no one can detect.
I’d be interested in more data about non-modal men.
I kind of want to have my cake and eat it too, it depends on situation context etc. I tend to desire both safety and respect, it also depends on the mood.
For additional data point: I am a man and generally care a lot about in-person social disapproval; it’s probably my main motivation when there’s another person in the room. I care much less about active adulation, and basically never even think about my own physical safety. I notice I am confused about whether this would count as “respect” or “safety.”
If we decompose these into (social/physical) and (upside-focused/downside-focused), I note that in your (Gordon’s) gendered examples above both stereotypically masculine and feminine behaviors have instances in the (downside-focused/social) quadrant, with very little in the (upside-focused/physical) quadrant (which makes sense, since there’s closer to a hard ceiling there.) So maybe the original claim is best expressed that men are disproportionately attuned to (upside and downside) social outcomes and women are disproportionately attuned to (social and physical) downside outcomes.
For additional data point: I am a man and generally care a lot about in-person social disapproval; it’s probably my main motivation when there’s another person in the room. I care much less about active adulation, and basically never even think about my own physical safety. I notice I am confused about whether this would count as “respect” or “safety.”
I’d say this is respect. If one is disapproved of, one is not respected.
I (and my friends) might be more of a woman as per this criterion. lol. (for reference I happen to be part of the cluster which my society recognises as with the label “young men”; I am mostly neutral on most of these, and lean womanly on others)
Another young man here largely identified as a woman by many of these criteria. I’m not sure that the author’s post generalises past their own experience, although I do agree with some of the statements as correct societal commentary.
My rough guess is that about 20% of men give up on caring about respect. My best theory is that they don’t think they can get it, so they stop putting effort into it, or seek it out only in very restricted ways that make “respect” stop feeling like the right word to describe what they’re doing, like getting good at a video game that no one ever sees them play or cultivating a sense that they are secretly better than everyone else in a way no one can detect.
I’d be interested in more data about non-modal men.
I kind of want to have my cake and eat it too, it depends on situation context etc. I tend to desire both safety and respect, it also depends on the mood.
For additional data point: I am a man and generally care a lot about in-person social disapproval; it’s probably my main motivation when there’s another person in the room. I care much less about active adulation, and basically never even think about my own physical safety. I notice I am confused about whether this would count as “respect” or “safety.”
If we decompose these into (social/physical) and (upside-focused/downside-focused), I note that in your (Gordon’s) gendered examples above both stereotypically masculine and feminine behaviors have instances in the (downside-focused/social) quadrant, with very little in the (upside-focused/physical) quadrant (which makes sense, since there’s closer to a hard ceiling there.) So maybe the original claim is best expressed that men are disproportionately attuned to (upside and downside) social outcomes and women are disproportionately attuned to (social and physical) downside outcomes.
I’d say this is respect. If one is disapproved of, one is not respected.