The proteins themselves are primarily covalent, but a quick google search says that the forces in the lipid layer surrounding cells are primarily non-covalent, and the forces between cells seem also non-covalent. Aren’t those forces the ones we should be worrying about?
It seems like Eliezer is saying “the human body is a sand-castle, what if we made it a pure crystal block?”, and you’re responding with “but individual grains of sand are very strong!”
I mean… what if we did make it a pure crystal block? What would that do to the energy requirements for movement? Hydrogen bonds are pretty weak, but a cycle of “form-then-break” is pretty cheap. Covalent bonds are strong, but forming and breaking them repeatedly is energetically expensive.
That doesn’t seem like the right analogy. The bonds are forced to fold over themselves because electrons repel each other and don’t want to touch. So the natural structures are mostly tetrahedral structures. Think of the vertices of a tetrahedron having edges that shoot towards and meet at the centre and you will see that these form 109° angles. When you imagine a bunch of these connected, you will see that they all start folding over themselves and will need to take up the same space which, is not possible because the electrons will repel. So you get distortions and all kinds of stuff to push them away and then it’s all complicated by a bunch of weak forces. The primary thing giving structure is this long string of covalent bonds.
If I understand you correctly, it seems like you have made a general argument against the existence for covalently bonded crystals. Since such structures are abundant, I don’t think much of your argument.
The structural proteins in the extracellular matrix and connective tissue (namely collagen and elastin) tend to have covalent crosslinks. So I I’m really not sure it’s accurate to say that hydrogen bonds and van der Waals forces are what’s holding the cells together.
The proteins themselves are primarily covalent, but a quick google search says that the forces in the lipid layer surrounding cells are primarily non-covalent, and the forces between cells seem also non-covalent. Aren’t those forces the ones we should be worrying about?
It seems like Eliezer is saying “the human body is a sand-castle, what if we made it a pure crystal block?”, and you’re responding with “but individual grains of sand are very strong!”
I mean… what if we did make it a pure crystal block? What would that do to the energy requirements for movement? Hydrogen bonds are pretty weak, but a cycle of “form-then-break” is pretty cheap. Covalent bonds are strong, but forming and breaking them repeatedly is energetically expensive.
That doesn’t seem like the right analogy. The bonds are forced to fold over themselves because electrons repel each other and don’t want to touch. So the natural structures are mostly tetrahedral structures. Think of the vertices of a tetrahedron having edges that shoot towards and meet at the centre and you will see that these form 109° angles. When you imagine a bunch of these connected, you will see that they all start folding over themselves and will need to take up the same space which, is not possible because the electrons will repel. So you get distortions and all kinds of stuff to push them away and then it’s all complicated by a bunch of weak forces. The primary thing giving structure is this long string of covalent bonds.
Also, “forces in the lipid layer surrounding cells” are not proteins
If I understand you correctly, it seems like you have made a general argument against the existence for covalently bonded crystals. Since such structures are abundant, I don’t think much of your argument.
Sure, but that does suggest that Yudkowsky could adjust his language a bit, right?
The structural proteins in the extracellular matrix and connective tissue (namely collagen and elastin) tend to have covalent crosslinks. So I I’m really not sure it’s accurate to say that hydrogen bonds and van der Waals forces are what’s holding the cells together.