Elo
The battle over time and money (patient value for their time) (doc value for money) was more central to the discussion than life and death. Bringing in the subjective life and death claims helps to elevate the stakes of the discussion, but this “signalling game” was all about the time and the money, not the life and death as claimed by the report.
We can pretend it was about life and death but the ticking clock was still very long. I could think of it as a “runway”. Yes at the end of the runway if the patient did nothing they could die in a week. On the other hand they have access to money and plenty of options. Lots of start ups run with 6 months of runway and crash, instagram had huge success in a very short time.
The fake runway here has death at the end, before that point includes, “the patient spends exorbitant money” making the runway longer.
By my understanding, leverage is working on human effectiveness. How to take a human and make them more effective at what they are doing.
There’s a broad brush of choosing high leverage people to apply their efforts of effectiveness training and a broad brush of what counts as their effectiveness methodologies.
I am thinking of it as coaching from a perspective of “what works” above “what is proven”, so branching into the post rationality area.
For example, if a person is learning piano. And they have maxed out deep work hours, and teacher hours, and relevant study programs, and expertise training. At some point teaching small stuff like posture, reading skills, memory, productivity, start to become effective techniques to add to the pile. As does maybe meditation, diet, and seemingly unrelated fields like social relationship management to better enable happiness and well-being while maximising piano learning. At some point the pollution in the air becomes a relevant factor, the development of the surrounding society, and more.
There are definitely rationalist positions that have unexamined potential in the pr direction, where a good excuse is, “I haven’t looked yet”. (and a bad excuse might be, “that’s dumb I don’t want to look there”). In that sense there is rationality that is not yet at Post-rational investigations.
I had to have some sense and experience of investigating and knowing the world before I turned that machine on itself and started to explore the inner workings of the investigation mechanism.
I would think of this in terms of rights. Who has the right to post a new theory? Who has the right to challenge an existing concept? Who has the right to reply? Who has the right to defence?Who has the right to demand?
Everyone can choose which ones you want to and which ones you don’t want to, but it’s not possible to bind other people to your preferences against their will.
This question is better informed by the works of Martin Seligman and his happiness/wellbeing department of psychology, Jordan Peterson’s early book “Maps of meaning”, and Victor Frankl.
Seligman suggests that meaning is one of the big things required to live a fulfilling and happy life.
Jordan Peterson proposed that meaning is narrative based and you can write your own meaning by journaling about your past/present/future.
Victor Frankl (post holocaust book—“man’s search for meaning”) invented logotherapy, suggesting that people need a reason and a purpose to exist. Described that while surviving the camps he was propelled by the desire to be able to one day tell his story. V also describes his patients and some of the ways he reflects back a cognitively meaningful conclusion to their struggles (man who died before his wife, was suggested that it was to save his wife from dying first and suffering without the man).
Buddhist meditators realise that meaning is subjective. because meaning is located in the brain, we can change it, we can manipulate it and we can make it work differently. I can do things like discount how much I value something, whenever I notice a motivation I can examine it’s parts and find it’s impermanence, I can notice how meaning does not satisfy and is just some chemistry in my brain. I can notice the self is an illusion and my own meaning is made up to satisfy something like an “ego” (ego is a word being butchered by many definitions).
Post rationalists can approach the problem like a game. What’s the meaning at the end of the game? Okay, why don’t I just stop playing the game and just do that. I call this the “just stop playing the game” game, and I’ve wanted to do it for as long as I was a rationalist. Only to realise that, the “just stop playing the game” game, is just another fancier game. Seeing the game, playing the game anyway, and realising it’s a game, or seeing the game and not playing the game, starts looking like the same thing. A prison I can’t escape. knowing these details, from the PR perspective, how do I play the game of my own choosing, my own meaning, while knowing I’m still in a game.
There’s also the theory of spiral dynamics which describes how different people find meaning from different broad structures in a sociologically predictable and mapped out fashion. I will write an article about it at some point and have several drafts half written.
It’s important to separate meaning from meaningful and the reasoning around meaning from the core meaningful thing. The difference between, “I really like sweet deserts” and “I like ice-cream” (but for meaning, X matters, Y are the reasons why it matters).
personal front:
Meaning is subjective, I accidentally made myself miserable by wanting things I could not have, then I accidentally made myself very disappointed by never wanting anything. It’s been a meditative challenge to find the balance where I can want something and not be sad if I don’t get it, and also not want something too hard that I feel meaningless being unable to get it, or meaningless once I do get it.
I explore what matters to other people, and that’s been fun and interesting. There’s a deep world of what matters to other people and why, and it’s worth sharing and enjoying.
There’s a complexity of validation for my own meaning, or some 1st person subjective desires never go away.
One thing I would like to acquire is the ability to have an enjoyable subjective experience almost all of the time.
This information should be publicly findable. And ideally anonymous information about reports received should also be published.
If it’s a non-public view count, I don’t see it becoming a goodheart metric. If something is too clickbait or trash, it would get downvotes. If it doesn’t get downvotes, maybe there’s good reasons.
Maybe it would be worth internally having:
page view count
upvote count
downvote count
vote total (also possibly up and down vote total)
comment count
some sort of relative metric that can compare this article to the other articles nearby.
There are two features. “author sees view count” and “public sees view count”. Which one are you talking about?
For me, I don’t write a clickbait and I don’t write a community drama. But I’ve written posts with 5 hours of work and posts with 30mins of work. And different styles and qualities of 30min posts. I’d love to know if people are reading them.
A post with 100 views and +10 up votes VS a post with 15 views and +10 up votes is a very different thing.
Is there a reason that post view count is not public? (for each post? Anonymous counter)
Old style mybb forums had this function. Seems simple and easy to implement, OTOH at least have the post author be able to know how many views they are getting?
I’d be interested in the views a post is getting, the total site views a month, and therefore the relevance to the user base of my posts. (independent of comment and vote metric data)
Pr is not in opposition either.
Are you sure that post rationality is opposite to rationality? Where did that idea come from?
I’ve been involved in the loosely defined PR cluster for a while and I’ve not seen such a thing yet. Do you have a link?
Interested.
Ah. I would still object to argument by credentials.
You might like to read “peak” by anders Ericsson on learning and expertise.
Personally I read a lot of books. I then grow, change, adapt and think differently because of the ~70 I’ve read each year for the past 3 years (and less each year before that). I often encounter people saying that they don’t learn from books. And asking me if I do learn from them. I can quote a lot of the books, I can describe how they fit in with the other books I know, I can teach people what was in the books.
I don’t believe I am an anomaly. I agree that in-person information transmission is more effective, but the transmitter needs to be good enough. And available. Many books I’ve read, I could not book the authors time to chat and teach me what they know.
Words point to the non-conceptual reality. In-person transmission enables embodiment of language as well. In short—potentially more transmits.
With books, the writing has to be careful to transmit well. Or the reader has to make assumptions. I tend to think, “who would I have to be to believe what the author has said.” at the same time as considering the truth claims and relevance to myself and my perception of reality.
I really really don’t care. I still want to call out the use of formal credentials as an applause light conversation stopper. If you don’t want to be commenting on lesswrong it’s not because you have credentials, it’s because you don’t want to be here. I take no offence if you tap out or leave or stop commenting. I do take offence at the idea that a credential is a show stopping argument.
Your name and address is not evidence of atom colour. And it should not be displayed here.
Let’s talk about standard temperature and pressure. Having an atmosphere would help to standardise colour.
Being embedded in a molten liquid sodium would change the way we ask this question. So would gaseous molecules.
How many assumptions underly the question. Earth based biological humanoid (as opposed to cat, bee, dog, squid) to define visible to human.
What are we trying to say with our categories and why?
Does the sun smell? Technically probably yes. But I’d call it a relative context error to be taking the question too seriously.
Does a “particle smaller than the wavelength of the visible light spectrum produce radiation in the visible light spectrum inherently?”—sounds like a very strange question to me.
“Is a chair a chair?”—“does this specific (central) example of the category chair represent the full global universal diversity of the category chair?”
If said like that, we’ve dissolved a confusion. There are still koan like questions designed for something else but these are not them.
It already fits
Except that for some techniques I had to step out of rational into “weird” to develop it. For example focusing is a technique in rationality that talks about interior subjective experience of a feeling of a knot of a problem and what could often be referred to the same phenomena as “energy channels”. A very alt-medicine-esque concept. I put focussing more in pr territory than in R territory. Particularly in the mind that developing further techniques needs to be done from a different experiential space.
That is—as Thomas Kuhn suggests in proposing paradigm shifts in the book “the structure of scientific revolutions”, to get novel science we need to do novel experiments with novel apparatuses. To revolutionise what we know, we need to explore something we haven’t already explored.
My experience is reactions are important for real time conversations with too many people at once. It allows one person to speak and several people to agree without adding another line of text and clogging up the discussion.
There is another use case of “supportive” emojis where I would react hug to “I’ve had a rough day” from a friend of mine.
There’s all the humour uses of emoji too but that’s not what we want on lw.