many of my friends are strongly opposed to AI-generated art, … I think this sort of usage isn’t much of a grey area: I would previously have just left off the image.
I agree it’s not much grey area: why wouldn’t you just leave out the image? I don’t see a case made for what value they bring to posts (but I also don’t know what kind of posts you’re referring to).
If I were one of your friends, I would (edit: be one of those who) ask you not to post a picture of me online. One of my major motivations would be to avoid it becoming training data. If you instead fed a picture of me directly to an LLM explicitly designed to offensively (to him) imitate one of the great artists of our time, I would probably reconsider our friendship altogether.
EDIT: This is clearly an unwelcome comment but nobody is saying why, so I’m asking. I think the tone is more hostile than necessary. I think the substance is pretty light. But to me, both are also clearly in the ballpark of the original post. I can restate it? But again, it feels to me like the original post is being shown undue reverence when I actually think it’s not a very high quality post.
I read this post as, “Here is a neat toy for hackers that I found,” which is fine, but not a discussion of rationality. It’s not what I come here for but I’m the newcomer so I can be wrong on the appropriateness of this post. But also the toy is very controversial, even to the author’s friends, and the author is pretty dismissive of that. And the toy is being used, seemingly without consent, on friends who have privacy concerns in a way that seemingly still violates their privacy (it is not said whether or not the subjects agreed to be ghiblified). So I felt these were worth criticizing—did I do that wrong or are these types of criticisms unwelcome here?
EDIT 2: “unwelcome” is certainly the wrong word as this has now been upvoted, it’s merely a disagreeable comment. Would like to know the ways in which people disagree but oh well.
I see, I didn’t notice those were links to the posts.
I don’t think that changes anything though. I also think the style choice doesn’t contribute to the vibe of the post but arguably that’s a personal preference only
And the toy is being used, seemingly without consent, on friends who have privacy concerns in a way that seemingly still violates their privacy
In the case of the house party, I asked the party hosts if I could post a photograph, and one of them suggested this method of anonymization. In the puddle picture I didn’t ask, but the kids are so generic that I really don’t see how it would violate their privacy.
Alright—that is fine, but it also doesn’t really reapond to the points I was making. I wasn’t concerned whether there was consent from people in a particular instance, but about how consent wasn’t described as part of your process.
Also, as I mentioned, for the kids: just uploading the photos to the ghibli LLM site seems like a likely privacy violation.
Do you think it’s wrong to take pictures in public places and put them online, even if there are people in the background who didn’t consent? I think of this as a very normal thing to do, though it does make them available for LLM-training-scraping among other things.
My answer to that question would not quite be a categorical yes or no. For example, there’s a difference between a manually taken selfie and a complete raw security camera feed.
But I do agree this is straying from the original topic a bit. Since the top-post use case is explicitly one where you’ve already decided you’re not comfortable posting the original photo publicly, I feel like the general acceptability of posting photos is mostly irrelevant here? I think a more on-point justification would be talking about why it’s more acceptable for an AI to see the original photo than for your general audience to see that same photo.
(To be clear I don’t personally have a major problem with this practice, at least as you’ve applied it so far, although I also don’t think it’s really added or subtracted much from my enjoyment or understanding of your posts so far. Mostly I just don’t find this particular justification to be convincing.)
Personally, yeah I do think it’s mildly wrong. Normal and ethical aren’t always correlated.
Again though, isn’t this getting a little off topic? It seems to be staying that way so it’s fine with me if we just let this conversation die off. Almost none of my questions or points are really being addressed (by you or the many others who disagree with me), so continuing doesn’t seem worthwhile. I’ve been hanging onto the thread hoping to get some answers, but from my perspective it’s just continued misdirection. I don’t think that’s your intent, and I may have put you on the defensive, but overall this is a negative-value conversation for me as I’m leaving more confused.
I agree it’s not much grey area: why wouldn’t you just leave out the image? I don’t see a case made for what value they bring to posts (
but I also don’t know what kind of posts you’re referring to).If I were one of your friends, I would (edit: be one of those who) ask you not to post a picture of me online. One of my major motivations would be to avoid it becoming training data. If you instead fed a picture of me directly to an LLM explicitly designed to offensively (to him) imitate one of the great artists of our time, I would probably reconsider our friendship altogether.
EDIT: This is clearly an unwelcome comment but nobody is saying why, so I’m asking. I think the tone is more hostile than necessary. I think the substance is pretty light. But to me, both are also clearly in the ballpark of the original post. I can restate it? But again, it feels to me like the original post is being shown undue reverence when I actually think it’s not a very high quality post.
I read this post as, “Here is a neat toy for hackers that I found,” which is fine, but not a discussion of rationality. It’s not what I come here for but I’m the newcomer so I can be wrong on the appropriateness of this post. But also the toy is very controversial, even to the author’s friends, and the author is pretty dismissive of that. And the toy is being used, seemingly without consent, on friends who have privacy concerns in a way that seemingly still violates their privacy (it is not said whether or not the subjects agreed to be ghiblified). So I felt these were worth criticizing—did I do that wrong or are these types of criticisms unwelcome here?
EDIT 2: “unwelcome” is certainly the wrong word as this has now been upvoted, it’s merely a disagreeable comment. Would like to know the ways in which people disagree but oh well.
The posts in question (linked from this post) are:
https://www.jefftk.com/p/house-party-dances
https://www.jefftk.com/p/letting-kids-be-outside
I see, I didn’t notice those were links to the posts.
I don’t think that changes anything though. I also think the style choice doesn’t contribute to the vibe of the post but arguably that’s a personal preference only
In the case of the house party, I asked the party hosts if I could post a photograph, and one of them suggested this method of anonymization. In the puddle picture I didn’t ask, but the kids are so generic that I really don’t see how it would violate their privacy.
Alright—that is fine, but it also doesn’t really reapond to the points I was making. I wasn’t concerned whether there was consent from people in a particular instance, but about how consent wasn’t described as part of your process.
Also, as I mentioned, for the kids: just uploading the photos to the ghibli LLM site seems like a likely privacy violation.
Do you think it’s wrong to take pictures in public places and put them online, even if there are people in the background who didn’t consent? I think of this as a very normal thing to do, though it does make them available for LLM-training-scraping among other things.
My answer to that question would not quite be a categorical yes or no. For example, there’s a difference between a manually taken selfie and a complete raw security camera feed.
But I do agree this is straying from the original topic a bit. Since the top-post use case is explicitly one where you’ve already decided you’re not comfortable posting the original photo publicly, I feel like the general acceptability of posting photos is mostly irrelevant here? I think a more on-point justification would be talking about why it’s more acceptable for an AI to see the original photo than for your general audience to see that same photo.
(To be clear I don’t personally have a major problem with this practice, at least as you’ve applied it so far, although I also don’t think it’s really added or subtracted much from my enjoyment or understanding of your posts so far. Mostly I just don’t find this particular justification to be convincing.)
Personally, yeah I do think it’s mildly wrong. Normal and ethical aren’t always correlated.
Again though, isn’t this getting a little off topic? It seems to be staying that way so it’s fine with me if we just let this conversation die off. Almost none of my questions or points are really being addressed (by you or the many others who disagree with me), so continuing doesn’t seem worthwhile. I’ve been hanging onto the thread hoping to get some answers, but from my perspective it’s just continued misdirection. I don’t think that’s your intent, and I may have put you on the defensive, but overall this is a negative-value conversation for me as I’m leaving more confused.