Yes, we don’t seem to disagree much. Just to clarify a few points one last time and answer your questions.
So I think that it can feel much the same from the inside; I think we both agree that it’s not exactly the same thing, though?
Yes, I agree. They are of much lower clarity. Nevertheless, I do currently believe it is basically the same process. I am basing this on my exploration of the dream state in which without external stimulus I can get perfect realistic (and even hyper-realistic) full sensory experiences.
(sorry, I know this is not really on topic with your post. I was just pointing to the internal dialogue which we now agree on)
If “operating system” isn’t the right word, I’m trying to point at “a way of internally representing your mind that gives you increased perspective on how your mind works, which might also cache certain algorithms that are representation dependent.” Maybe “abstraction layer” already covers most of this?
My opinion is that there is no need to create a label. ‘Belief system’ already exists as a term and I think it describes what you are talking about. You became aware of what a ‘belief system’ is and realised you can change it. It is a powerful realisation. You could use other terms as well as metaphors if you are trying to teach people of what a belief system is, but that is another subject.
I think we’re in agreement here as well. I suspect it’d be taxing and suboptimal for people to be meta-aware all of the time, vis a vis the textbook rationality mindset.
Just to make sure we are talking about the same things here. What do you mean ‘meta-aware’? Could you describe to me your internal experience when you are meta-aware?
In other cases, things like “blank time” where you’re not thinking can be good for letting your brain just run on its own. Or, deliberate “non-thinking” can have helpful effects too.
Could you also clarify what you mean with “blank time”. When we leave our brain to run on its own the internal dialogue does not stop. We are just flooded with automatic thoughts. No?
Could you also clarify what you mean with “blank time”. When we leave our brain to run on its own the internal dialogue does not stop. We are just flooded with automatic thoughts. No?
There are types of meditation that lead to mental states where the flooding stops.
Just to make sure we are talking about the same things here. What do you mean ‘meta-aware’? Could you describe to me your internal experience when you are meta-aware?
Erm, I’m trying to point to the sort of mindfulness where you’re thinking about your tasks rather than just doing them. Something like, “Ah yes, now let’s go and do this written assignment. Okay, looks like I need to write about post-modernism. What do I know about post-modernism? Huh, I notice I am feeling bored...”
Could you also clarify what you mean with “blank time”. When we leave our brain to run on its own the internal dialogue does not stop. We are just flooded with automatic thoughts. No?
I think there’s several things I was trying to describe. I’ve found that leaving my brain to run on its own can be good, but it feels less like there’s an internal observer that’s speaking. Thoughts just sort of stream in, in wordless impulses and hazy flashes.
But I also buy the claim that complete “non-thinking” can be helpful for Reasons, which I assume is not the same thing as the above.
Erm, I’m trying to point to the sort of mindfulness where you’re thinking about your tasks rather than just doing them. Something like, “Ah yes, now let’s go and do this written assignment. Okay, looks like I need to write about post-modernism. What do I know about post-modernism? Huh, I notice I am feeling bored...”
Yes, that is what I thought. If you are thinking in sound/language you are using your internal dialogue. Mindfulness is pausing your internal dialogue and focusing your senses on the current experience. Not talking to yourself about what you are doing. What I think is happening, and this is an assumption on my part, is that you have never experienced the stopping of your internal dialogue as it seldom happens spontaneously.
But I also buy the claim that complete “non-thinking” can be helpful for Reasons, which I assume is not the same thing as the above.
I am not sure what you mean by ‘Reasons’ but I do believe practising meditation, concentration and contemplation (please avoid, in your mind, associating my use of the terms to religion) are essential. As essential as practising our intellectual skills.
I’ve done some mindfulness mediation, but I haven’t made it into a consistent practice. I was trying to compress the sorts of potential health benefits, general life improvements etc. into a black box of “reasons” (which otherwise might have spiraled into its own discussion) with the capital “Reasons”.
Yes, we don’t seem to disagree much. Just to clarify a few points one last time and answer your questions.
Yes, I agree. They are of much lower clarity. Nevertheless, I do currently believe it is basically the same process. I am basing this on my exploration of the dream state in which without external stimulus I can get perfect realistic (and even hyper-realistic) full sensory experiences.
(sorry, I know this is not really on topic with your post. I was just pointing to the internal dialogue which we now agree on)
My opinion is that there is no need to create a label. ‘Belief system’ already exists as a term and I think it describes what you are talking about. You became aware of what a ‘belief system’ is and realised you can change it. It is a powerful realisation. You could use other terms as well as metaphors if you are trying to teach people of what a belief system is, but that is another subject.
Just to make sure we are talking about the same things here. What do you mean ‘meta-aware’? Could you describe to me your internal experience when you are meta-aware?
Could you also clarify what you mean with “blank time”. When we leave our brain to run on its own the internal dialogue does not stop. We are just flooded with automatic thoughts. No?
There are types of meditation that lead to mental states where the flooding stops.
Indeed, that is what I am pointing at. I am just not sure lifelonglearner realises that these states are possible.
Erm, I’m trying to point to the sort of mindfulness where you’re thinking about your tasks rather than just doing them. Something like, “Ah yes, now let’s go and do this written assignment. Okay, looks like I need to write about post-modernism. What do I know about post-modernism? Huh, I notice I am feeling bored...”
I think there’s several things I was trying to describe. I’ve found that leaving my brain to run on its own can be good, but it feels less like there’s an internal observer that’s speaking. Thoughts just sort of stream in, in wordless impulses and hazy flashes.
But I also buy the claim that complete “non-thinking” can be helpful for Reasons, which I assume is not the same thing as the above.
Yes, that is what I thought. If you are thinking in sound/language you are using your internal dialogue. Mindfulness is pausing your internal dialogue and focusing your senses on the current experience. Not talking to yourself about what you are doing. What I think is happening, and this is an assumption on my part, is that you have never experienced the stopping of your internal dialogue as it seldom happens spontaneously.
I am not sure what you mean by ‘Reasons’ but I do believe practising meditation, concentration and contemplation (please avoid, in your mind, associating my use of the terms to religion) are essential. As essential as practising our intellectual skills.
I’ve done some mindfulness mediation, but I haven’t made it into a consistent practice. I was trying to compress the sorts of potential health benefits, general life improvements etc. into a black box of “reasons” (which otherwise might have spiraled into its own discussion) with the capital “Reasons”.
Ah sorry. Didn’t get it :)