Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor nor a nutritionist, just someone who researches nutrition from time to time.
I would be surprised if protein deficiency per se was the actual problem. As I understand it, many vegetables actually have a higher level of protein per calorie than meat (probably due to the higher fat content of the latter, which is more calorie dense), although obviously, there’s less protein per unit mass than meat (since vegetables are mostly cellulose and water). The point is, though, that if you were getting enough calories to function from whole, unrefined plant sources, you shouldn’t have had a protein deficiency. (Of course, you might have been eating a lot of highly processed “vegetarian” foods, in which case protein deficiency is not entirely out of the question.)
That being said, my guess is that you may be experiencing a nutritional deficiency either in sulfur or in vitamin D (the latter of which is a very common deficiency). Plant-derived proteins tend to have much lower levels of sulfur-containing amino acids (methionine, cysteine) than animal-derived proteins, and sulfur is an important component of cartilage (and of arthritis supplements). Both sulfur and vitamin D have been investigated for their role in musculoskeletal pain and other health issues (although from what I have read, results are more ambiguous for sulfur than for vitamin D with respect to musculoskeletal pain in particular). Eggs are particularly high in both sulfur (sulfur smell = rotten egg smell) and vitamin D, so if you were low on either one of those, it makes sense that eating a lot of eggs would have helped. It would be very interesting to test whether either high-sulfur vegetables (such as onions or broccoli) or vitamin D supplements would have a similar effect on your health.
Congrats! I went through this thought process as well, and one of your three hypotheses above seems like the right one. Vitamin D isn’t the issue (I have tests for it and have heavily supplemented for years), and sulfur itself isn’t an issue (onions and broccolo are both pretty big in my diet). However, the lack of sulfur amino acids is the lead hypothesis.
Over the years, I had slowly shifted my diet more and more plant based: lots of vegetables, with occasional meat and a piece of fish every couple of days. As you mentioned, not all protein is created equal. While both vegetables and meat both contain all 20 amino acids, the ratios matter. Bodybuilders eat animal protein instead of vegetable protein for very good reason. I try to be active and try to keep muscle on my frame, and the plant based sources were just not providing enough of the key unsynthesizable amino acids.
Unfortunately, I do not have useful links for this—my understanding comes from non-English podcasts of a nutritionist. Please do not rely on my memory, but maybe this can be helpful for localizing good hypotheses.
According to how I remember this, one complication of veg*n diets and amino acids is that the question of which of the amino acids can be produced by your body and which are essential can effectively depend on your personal genes. In the podcast they mentioned that especially for males there is a fraction of the population who totally would need to supplement some “non-essential” amino acids if they want to stay healthy and follow veg*n diets. As these nutrients are usually not considered as worthy of consideration (because most people really do not need to think about them separately and also do not restrict their diet to avoid animal sources), they are not included in usual supplements and nutrition advice
(I think the term is “meat-based bioactive compounds”).
I think Elizabeth also emphasized this aspect in this post
The potato is closest to meat in having about 36 calories per gram of protein and all essential amino acids, but it’s still only about 30% of the way to being as proteinaceous as non-lean steak or 15% of the way to lean steak.
As a highly active exerciser, OP may have needed up to 2.5x the protein as a typical person, while only requiring 40% more calories. So no, low-meat diet that would sustain the protein needs of a low-activity person doesn’t always straightforwardly translate to a high-activity lifestyle.
An 80 kg man at low activity might need 64 g protein/day and 2500 calories. If he starts exercising intensively, he may need 3500 calories and up to 160g protein. It’s not possible to do that with potatoes − 160g of protein from potatoes entails eating almost 6000 calories.
The only thing that would get you there on a vegan/vegetarian diet is protein powder, which is as protein-dense as lean steak at about 100 calories/15 g protein.
The only thing that would get you there on a vegan/vegetarian diet is protein powder
Not at all! 100g of beans is 8.9g protein and 132 calories. Eating 2500 calories of beans would give you 169g protein. So you can use just 1⁄3 of your calorie budget to get 64g protein. Even pasta is 5.15g and 131 calories in 100g, so getting 64g protein would use 2⁄3 of your budget.
Now, beans and wheat aren’t complete proteins on their own, but combined they’re pretty good! And since beans are so protein-dense you have a lot left in your calorie budget to work with.
I endorse this—I was reacting to the conventional way people use the word “vegetable,” which I don’t typically hear applied to legumes or to grain. But for the purpose of getting high protein on a low meat diet, it’s obviously not important it be from a vegetable per se.
Broccoli is higher in protein content per calorie than either beans or pasta and is a very central example of a vegetable, though you’d also want to mix it with beans or something for a better protein quality. 3500 calories of broccoli is 294g protein, if Google’s nutrition facts are to be trusted. Spinach, kale, and cauliflower all also have substantially better protein per calories than potatoes and better PDCAAS scores than I expected (though I’m not certain I trust them—does spinach actually get a 1?). I think potatoes are a poor example (and also not one vegetarians turn to for protein).
Though I tend to drench my vegetables in olive oil so these calories per gram numbers don’t mean much to me in practice, and good luck eating such a large volume of any of these.
True! I am a broccoli fan. Just to put a number on it, to get the proposed 160g of protein per day, you’d have to eat 5.6 kg of broccoli, or well over 10 lb.
Not to rain on any parades… but don’t eat spinach guys.
If you try to fix joint pains by getting more protein from kilograms of spinach or kale, you will be severly disappointed. I’m talking about oxalic acid. See my comment.
It is more likely though that you will get kidney injury or kidney stones as a first symptom. Some people have died of imbibing big green smoothies, which presumably contained spinach. Everyone knows rhubarb is bad because of oxalic acid. Spinach contains the same stuff in high concentrations.
Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor nor a nutritionist, just someone who researches nutrition from time to time.
I would be surprised if protein deficiency per se was the actual problem. As I understand it, many vegetables actually have a higher level of protein per calorie than meat (probably due to the higher fat content of the latter, which is more calorie dense), although obviously, there’s less protein per unit mass than meat (since vegetables are mostly cellulose and water). The point is, though, that if you were getting enough calories to function from whole, unrefined plant sources, you shouldn’t have had a protein deficiency. (Of course, you might have been eating a lot of highly processed “vegetarian” foods, in which case protein deficiency is not entirely out of the question.)
That being said, my guess is that you may be experiencing a nutritional deficiency either in sulfur or in vitamin D (the latter of which is a very common deficiency). Plant-derived proteins tend to have much lower levels of sulfur-containing amino acids (methionine, cysteine) than animal-derived proteins, and sulfur is an important component of cartilage (and of arthritis supplements). Both sulfur and vitamin D have been investigated for their role in musculoskeletal pain and other health issues (although from what I have read, results are more ambiguous for sulfur than for vitamin D with respect to musculoskeletal pain in particular). Eggs are particularly high in both sulfur (sulfur smell = rotten egg smell) and vitamin D, so if you were low on either one of those, it makes sense that eating a lot of eggs would have helped. It would be very interesting to test whether either high-sulfur vegetables (such as onions or broccoli) or vitamin D supplements would have a similar effect on your health.
Congrats! I went through this thought process as well, and one of your three hypotheses above seems like the right one. Vitamin D isn’t the issue (I have tests for it and have heavily supplemented for years), and sulfur itself isn’t an issue (onions and broccolo are both pretty big in my diet). However, the lack of sulfur amino acids is the lead hypothesis.
Over the years, I had slowly shifted my diet more and more plant based: lots of vegetables, with occasional meat and a piece of fish every couple of days. As you mentioned, not all protein is created equal. While both vegetables and meat both contain all 20 amino acids, the ratios matter. Bodybuilders eat animal protein instead of vegetable protein for very good reason. I try to be active and try to keep muscle on my frame, and the plant based sources were just not providing enough of the key unsynthesizable amino acids.
Unfortunately, I do not have useful links for this—my understanding comes from non-English podcasts of a nutritionist. Please do not rely on my memory, but maybe this can be helpful for localizing good hypotheses.
According to how I remember this, one complication of veg*n diets and amino acids is that the question of which of the amino acids can be produced by your body and which are essential can effectively depend on your personal genes. In the podcast they mentioned that especially for males there is a fraction of the population who totally would need to supplement some “non-essential” amino acids if they want to stay healthy and follow veg*n diets. As these nutrients are usually not considered as worthy of consideration (because most people really do not need to think about them separately and also do not restrict their diet to avoid animal sources), they are not included in usual supplements and nutrition advice
(I think the term is “meat-based bioactive compounds”).
I think Elizabeth also emphasized this aspect in this post
The potato is closest to meat in having about 36 calories per gram of protein and all essential amino acids, but it’s still only about 30% of the way to being as proteinaceous as non-lean steak or 15% of the way to lean steak.
As a highly active exerciser, OP may have needed up to 2.5x the protein as a typical person, while only requiring 40% more calories. So no, low-meat diet that would sustain the protein needs of a low-activity person doesn’t always straightforwardly translate to a high-activity lifestyle.
An 80 kg man at low activity might need 64 g protein/day and 2500 calories. If he starts exercising intensively, he may need 3500 calories and up to 160g protein. It’s not possible to do that with potatoes − 160g of protein from potatoes entails eating almost 6000 calories.
The only thing that would get you there on a vegan/vegetarian diet is protein powder, which is as protein-dense as lean steak at about 100 calories/15 g protein.
Not at all! 100g of beans is 8.9g protein and 132 calories. Eating 2500 calories of beans would give you 169g protein. So you can use just 1⁄3 of your calorie budget to get 64g protein. Even pasta is 5.15g and 131 calories in 100g, so getting 64g protein would use 2⁄3 of your budget.
Now, beans and wheat aren’t complete proteins on their own, but combined they’re pretty good! And since beans are so protein-dense you have a lot left in your calorie budget to work with.
I endorse this—I was reacting to the conventional way people use the word “vegetable,” which I don’t typically hear applied to legumes or to grain. But for the purpose of getting high protein on a low meat diet, it’s obviously not important it be from a vegetable per se.
Broccoli is higher in protein content per calorie than either beans or pasta and is a very central example of a vegetable, though you’d also want to mix it with beans or something for a better protein quality. 3500 calories of broccoli is 294g protein, if Google’s nutrition facts are to be trusted. Spinach, kale, and cauliflower all also have substantially better protein per calories than potatoes and better PDCAAS scores than I expected (though I’m not certain I trust them—does spinach actually get a 1?). I think potatoes are a poor example (and also not one vegetarians turn to for protein).
Though I tend to drench my vegetables in olive oil so these calories per gram numbers don’t mean much to me in practice, and good luck eating such a large volume of any of these.
True! I am a broccoli fan. Just to put a number on it, to get the proposed 160g of protein per day, you’d have to eat 5.6 kg of broccoli, or well over 10 lb.
Not to rain on any parades… but don’t eat spinach guys.
If you try to fix joint pains by getting more protein from kilograms of spinach or kale, you will be severly disappointed. I’m talking about oxalic acid. See my comment.
It is more likely though that you will get kidney injury or kidney stones as a first symptom. Some people have died of imbibing big green smoothies, which presumably contained spinach. Everyone knows rhubarb is bad because of oxalic acid. Spinach contains the same stuff in high concentrations.