“Woke” is a pejorative neologism for “rights-and-equality-respecting” coined by the anti-equality/human-rights/anti-LGBT/racist crowd. (Edit: Sorry, actually not coined by them.) What is called “woke” is actually normal, and what they’d call “normal” would have to be sanitized to avoid offending their sensibilities (white main characters, non-LGBT couples, etc.).
My guess as to why “woke” (actually normal) culture is marketable is that the anti-rights-crowd is both getting smaller and losing its marketing power.
(In the future, when not wanting to signal the allegiance to the Bad Guys crowd (to both them and normal people), avoid using the word “woke” and find some other way of expressing the same sentiment. Example: “I can’t understand why is there a gay couple in a new movie. Any idea why they put such a bizarre, not-related-to-reality and not-appealing-to-viewers thing there?”)
The system wouldn’t let me delete your reply here. The button simply wouldn’t respond.
The problem in short is that you’re actively summoning the mind-killing aspects of politics by forcefully asserting one side of a culture war debate as fact, in content and in frame.
This is epistemically toxic and absolutely does not belong in the context of a discussion space for rationality.
Since the tech won’t let me delete your comment, I’ve heavily downvoted it, and I’ll leave this comment here.
I still think you’re seriously underestimating the value of green_leaf’s comment, though. it certainly does read as annoyed, but if I could, I’d have it hovering around −2, not −20.
The problem in short is that you’re actively summoning the mind-killing aspects of politics by forcefully asserting one side of a culture war debate as fact, in content and in frame.
As for the “culture war,” there I’m making a normative statement (they are morally wrong, we are morally right), not a factual one. If you want to dispute that, you can, but it goes beyond your original question and changes the topic.
Do you have anything to say about the factual part of my answer (the suggested reason why movies are increasingly normal rather than anti-rights/equality), or are you satisfied with getting offended at my answer not employing moral relativism?
The phrase “politically correct” seems to have undergone a similar trajectory in the US if my personal experience is any indication: the first time I heard it was in the late 1980s on KUSF, a radio station mostly run by students at the University of San Francisco, by a speaker who was obviously an adherent. (Specifically, she said, without irony or sarcasm, “Don’t you mean you want a Pepsi? Coke is not politically correct.”) Then after the phrase started to be used frequently by critics, some of the adherents started objecting to the term as pejorative (perhaps without realizing that the term was used by adherents before widespread use among critics).
In the future, when not wanting to signal the allegiance to the Bad Guys crowd...
If you find yourself uttering statements like this, consider that you may have been mind-killed by politics. (EDIT: To clarify, I’m from Europe, not the US, and am thus pretty far removed from US politics.)
Though to add a bit of substance to this comment, consider this: How would you expect a poll on the question “To the extent that you understand the term, do you consider yourself to be ‘woke’?” to break down by party? For instance, what numbers of “yes” vs. “no” would you expect for Republicans? Anyway, here’s such a poll from mid-2021.
If you find yourself uttering statements like this, consider that you may have been mind-killed by politics.
Politics is a very encompassing term, and unfortunately, many people like folding into it even questions of human rights, dignity, etc. (and technically speaking, it’s true). The danger of avoiding having a well-defined, strong opinion on normality and morality on the grounds that it would be politics, and having a strong opinion on politics means being mind-killed, is that I could accidentally ignore the true/false and right/wrong distinction.
Unless you mean the form of those phrases and not the content (in which case—I picked the form deliberately).
A third possible interpretation I can see that you’re saying political discourse caused me not to think clearly about this topic, in which case I think you’re overrelativizing the issue by overcompensating to avoid being mind-killed yourself.
For instance, what numbers of “yes” vs. “no” would you expect for Republicans?
I’d expect most of them to identify as not-woke, let’s say 85-15.
After looking at the poll (of which I’m not sure to what extent it’s trustworthy), the real numbers are 36-17, which is 68-32 after renormalizing, which is different from what I expected. I’m not sure to what extent I should update on that.
“Woke” is a pejorative neologism for “rights-and-equality-respecting”
coined by the anti-equality/human-rights/anti-LGBT/racist crowd. (Edit: Sorry, actually not coined by them.) What is called “woke” is actually normal, and what they’d call “normal” would have to be sanitized to avoid offending their sensibilities (white main characters, non-LGBT couples, etc.).My guess as to why “woke” (actually normal) culture is marketable is that the anti-rights-crowd is both getting smaller and losing its marketing power.
(In the future, when not wanting to signal the allegiance to the Bad Guys crowd (to both them and normal people), avoid using the word “woke” and find some other way of expressing the same sentiment. Example: “I can’t understand why is there a gay couple in a new movie. Any idea why they put such a bizarre, not-related-to-reality and not-appealing-to-viewers thing there?”)
The system wouldn’t let me delete your reply here. The button simply wouldn’t respond.
The problem in short is that you’re actively summoning the mind-killing aspects of politics by forcefully asserting one side of a culture war debate as fact, in content and in frame.
This is epistemically toxic and absolutely does not belong in the context of a discussion space for rationality.
Since the tech won’t let me delete your comment, I’ve heavily downvoted it, and I’ll leave this comment here.
I still think you’re seriously underestimating the value of green_leaf’s comment, though. it certainly does read as annoyed, but if I could, I’d have it hovering around −2, not −20.
As for the “culture war,” there I’m making a normative statement (they are morally wrong, we are morally right), not a factual one. If you want to dispute that, you can, but it goes beyond your original question and changes the topic.
Do you have anything to say about the factual part of my answer (the suggested reason why movies are increasingly normal rather than anti-rights/equality), or are you satisfied with getting offended at my answer not employing moral relativism?
I am not available to engage with someone who’s trying to attack me with moves like this one.
If you want me to engage with any content of what you have to say, I’ll need you to clean up the inclination to attack.
If you cannot or don’t want to do that, we’ll simply be done.
Ok.
This is false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
Thanks. I didn’t know that. So what I had in mind is the neologism (the third meaning), but the original word has actually normal roots.
The phrase “politically correct” seems to have undergone a similar trajectory in the US if my personal experience is any indication: the first time I heard it was in the late 1980s on KUSF, a radio station mostly run by students at the University of San Francisco, by a speaker who was obviously an adherent. (Specifically, she said, without irony or sarcasm, “Don’t you mean you want a Pepsi? Coke is not politically correct.”) Then after the phrase started to be used frequently by critics, some of the adherents started objecting to the term as pejorative (perhaps without realizing that the term was used by adherents before widespread use among critics).
If you find yourself uttering statements like this, consider that you may have been mind-killed by politics. (EDIT: To clarify, I’m from Europe, not the US, and am thus pretty far removed from US politics.)
Though to add a bit of substance to this comment, consider this: How would you expect a poll on the question “To the extent that you understand the term, do you consider yourself to be ‘woke’?” to break down by party? For instance, what numbers of “yes” vs. “no” would you expect for Republicans? Anyway, here’s such a poll from mid-2021.
Politics is a very encompassing term, and unfortunately, many people like folding into it even questions of human rights, dignity, etc. (and technically speaking, it’s true). The danger of avoiding having a well-defined, strong opinion on normality and morality on the grounds that it would be politics, and having a strong opinion on politics means being mind-killed, is that I could accidentally ignore the true/false and right/wrong distinction.
Unless you mean the form of those phrases and not the content (in which case—I picked the form deliberately).
A third possible interpretation I can see that you’re saying political discourse caused me not to think clearly about this topic, in which case I think you’re overrelativizing the issue by overcompensating to avoid being mind-killed yourself.
I’d expect most of them to identify as not-woke, let’s say 85-15.
After looking at the poll (of which I’m not sure to what extent it’s trustworthy), the real numbers are 36-17, which is 68-32 after renormalizing, which is different from what I expected. I’m not sure to what extent I should update on that.