Thanks for your post and advices. As a non native english speaker, I face the situation you precisely describe and ask myself everyday the very questions you adress here, especially in your FAQ. I went to the same conclusions as yours but I recognize that I occasionally indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs for text improvment. That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression, it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english. It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot but your advices are precious in this matter. Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.
As an experiment, I asked ChatGPT o3 to mark issues with your paragraph above. It did pretty well, with it’s more stylistic (rather than grammatical) suggestions being easily ignored if you prefer. Here’s the dialog:
PROMPT TO O3:
Please look at the following text and identify places where the English is ungrammatical, or reads very oddly to a native speaker, and suggest how to rephrase correctly:
Thanks for your post and advices. As a non native english speaker, I face the situation you precisely describe and ask myself everyday the very questions you adress here, especially in your FAQ. I went to the same conclusions as yours but I recognize that I occasionally indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs for text improvment. That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression, it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english. It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot but your advices are precious in this matter. Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.
REASONING:
Thought for 11 seconds The user wants help identifying ungrammatical parts of a paragraph and suggestions for rephrasing. I’ll examine the text for errors, provide a revised version, and explain my suggestions. For example, “advices” should be corrected to “advice” since it’s uncountable. “Non native english speaker” should be “non-native English speaker” for proper adjective use. Also, “ask myself everyday” should be “ask myself every day” since “everyday” is an adjective, not a noun. Let’s clarify those. Done
RESPONSE:
Below I’ve marked the parts that sound ungrammatical or awkward to a native speaker, then offered smoother alternatives. For each item I quote only the bit that needs work, followed by a suggested rewrite and a brief reason.
| Original phrasing (excerpt) | Suggested rewrite | Why | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | **“and advices.”** | “and advice.” | *Advice* is an uncountable noun in English. | | **“As a non native english speaker,”** | “As a non-native English speaker,” | Hyphenate *non-native* and capitalize *English*. | | **“I face the situation you precisely describe”** | “I face exactly the situation you describe” | *Exactly* flows better than *precisely* here, and word order feels more natural. | | **“ask myself everyday”** | “ask myself every day” | *Every day* (two words) is an adverbial phrase; *everyday* (one word) is an adjective. | | **“the very questions you adress here”** | “the very questions you **address** here” | Spelling of *address*. | | **“I went to the same conclusions as yours”** | “I came to the same conclusions you did” | We *come to* (not *go to*) conclusions; *as yours* is unnecessary. | | **“indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs”** | “indulged myself too much **in** relying on LLMs” | The verb *indulge (oneself) in* something. | | **“for text improvment.”** | “for text improvement.” | Spelling of *improvement*. | | **“That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression,”** | “That’s hard to resist, because even though anything flagged as ‘LLM-ish’ can create a bad impression,” | *Even though* works better; *flagged* is idiomatic; simpler clause structure. | | **“it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english.”** | “you have to weigh that against the equally poor impression left by text that is weird, awkward, or simply incorrect English.” | Clearer verb (*weigh*), smoother wording, capitalize *English*. | | **“It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot”** | “It’s hard to find the sweet spot” | *Find the sweet spot* is the usual idiom; *place the cursor* sounds literal/computer-specific. | | **“but your advices are precious in this matter.”** | “but your advice is invaluable in this matter.” | *Advice* is uncountable; *invaluable* or *extremely helpful* sound natural. | | **“Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.”** | “Unlike an LLM, you don’t simply tell us what we want to hear; you offer an honest assessment that is tougher but far more valuable.” | Smoother coordination and more idiomatic verbs. |
---
### One possible fully polished version
> Thank you for your post and advice. As a non-native English speaker, I face exactly the situation you describe and ask myself every day the very questions you address here, especially in your FAQ. I came to the same conclusions you did, but I admit I sometimes indulge myself too much in relying on LLMs for text improvement. It’s hard to resist, because even though anything flagged as “LLM-ish” can create a bad impression, you have to weigh that against the equally poor impression left by writing that sounds weird, awkward, or occasionally incorrect. Finding the sweet spot is difficult, but your advice is invaluable. Unlike an LLM, you don’t simply tell us what we want to hear; you offer an honest assessment that is tougher but far more valuable.
I agree that it did a good job, though there’s just enough LLM-smell in the “polished version” that I think it’d be best to ignore it, or even say “please don’t give me a polished version, only line notes that are clear on their level of grammatical objectivity” in the prompt.
Thank you. In this comment I posted my raw imperfect writing, but otherwise I often procede just like you did. However the questions discussed in the FAQ arise often concerning more developed writings. It is tempting to let the LLM do more work, and it would be stupid to reject assistance just because it comes from a machine. It would be like a lumberjack refusing a chainsaw. But I think that JusticeMills is utterly right. We must be very careful and accept only a very limited amount of assistance.
broken english, sloppy grammar, but clear outline and readability (using headers well, not writing in a single paragraph (and avoiding unnecessarily deep nesting (both of which I’m terrible at and don’t want to improve on for casual commenting (though in this comment I’m exaggerating it for funsies)))) in otherwise highly intellectually competent writing which makes clear and well-aimed points, has become, to my eye, an unambiguous shining green flag. I can’t speak for anyone else.
For what it’s worth, I think that Justis hits the nail on the head with “I think probably under current conditions, broken English is less of a red flag for people than LLM-ese.” In such a global language as English, people naturally give slack. (Also, non-native speakers are kind of in an adversarial situation with LLM-ese, since it’s harder to detect when you aren’t as immersed in standard American/British English.)
Concrete example: my parents, whose English is fairly weak, always say that one of the nice things about America is that people are linguistically generous. They illustrate it like this: “In our country, if people can’t understand you, they think it’s your fault. In America, they think it’s theirs.” I think the same is true of the internet, especially somewhere like LessWrong.
On a practical note, I think spellcheckers like those in Docs and Word are sufficient for these contexts. In academic writing or whatever, when standard English serves more of a signaling function, it’s trickier.
Thanks for your post and advices. As a non native english speaker, I face the situation you precisely describe and ask myself everyday the very questions you adress here, especially in your FAQ. I went to the same conclusions as yours but I recognize that I occasionally indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs for text improvment. That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression, it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english. It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot but your advices are precious in this matter. Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.
As an experiment, I asked ChatGPT o3 to mark issues with your paragraph above. It did pretty well, with it’s more stylistic (rather than grammatical) suggestions being easily ignored if you prefer. Here’s the dialog:
PROMPT TO O3:
Please look at the following text and identify places where the English is ungrammatical, or reads very oddly to a native speaker, and suggest how to rephrase correctly:
Thanks for your post and advices. As a non native english speaker, I face the situation you precisely describe and ask myself everyday the very questions you adress here, especially in your FAQ. I went to the same conclusions as yours but I recognize that I occasionally indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs for text improvment. That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression, it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english. It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot but your advices are precious in this matter. Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.
REASONING:
Thought for 11 seconds
The user wants help identifying ungrammatical parts of a paragraph and suggestions for rephrasing. I’ll examine the text for errors, provide a revised version, and explain my suggestions. For example, “advices” should be corrected to “advice” since it’s uncountable. “Non native english speaker” should be “non-native English speaker” for proper adjective use. Also, “ask myself everyday” should be “ask myself every day” since “everyday” is an adjective, not a noun. Let’s clarify those.
Done
RESPONSE:
Below I’ve marked the parts that sound ungrammatical or awkward to a native speaker, then offered smoother alternatives. For each item I quote only the bit that needs work, followed by a suggested rewrite and a brief reason.
| Original phrasing (excerpt) | Suggested rewrite | Why |
| --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| **“and advices.”** | “and advice.” | *Advice* is an uncountable noun in English. |
| **“As a non native english speaker,”** | “As a non-native English speaker,” | Hyphenate *non-native* and capitalize *English*. |
| **“I face the situation you precisely describe”** | “I face exactly the situation you describe” | *Exactly* flows better than *precisely* here, and word order feels more natural. |
| **“ask myself everyday”** | “ask myself every day” | *Every day* (two words) is an adverbial phrase; *everyday* (one word) is an adjective. |
| **“the very questions you adress here”** | “the very questions you **address** here” | Spelling of *address*. |
| **“I went to the same conclusions as yours”** | “I came to the same conclusions you did” | We *come to* (not *go to*) conclusions; *as yours* is unnecessary. |
| **“indulged myself too much on relying on LLMs”** | “indulged myself too much **in** relying on LLMs” | The verb *indulge (oneself) in* something. |
| **“for text improvment.”** | “for text improvement.” | Spelling of *improvement*. |
| **“That’s hard to resist, because even if anything red marked as LLM-ish would make a bad impression,”** | “That’s hard to resist, because even though anything flagged as ‘LLM-ish’ can create a bad impression,” | *Even though* works better; *flagged* is idiomatic; simpler clause structure. |
| **“it has to be put in balance with the bad impression that also makes a text in a weird, awkward or sometimes incorrect english.”** | “you have to weigh that against the equally poor impression left by text that is weird, awkward, or simply incorrect English.” | Clearer verb (*weigh*), smoother wording, capitalize *English*. |
| **“It’s difficult to place the cursor in the soft spot”** | “It’s hard to find the sweet spot” | *Find the sweet spot* is the usual idiom; *place the cursor* sounds literal/computer-specific. |
| **“but your advices are precious in this matter.”** | “but your advice is invaluable in this matter.” | *Advice* is uncountable; *invaluable* or *extremely helpful* sound natural. |
| **“Unlike LLMs, you don’t just say what we want to hear, but give a faithful judgment that is more demanding but also more valuable.”** | “Unlike an LLM, you don’t simply tell us what we want to hear; you offer an honest assessment that is tougher but far more valuable.” | Smoother coordination and more idiomatic verbs. |
---
### One possible fully polished version
> Thank you for your post and advice. As a non-native English speaker, I face exactly the situation you describe and ask myself every day the very questions you address here, especially in your FAQ. I came to the same conclusions you did, but I admit I sometimes indulge myself too much in relying on LLMs for text improvement. It’s hard to resist, because even though anything flagged as “LLM-ish” can create a bad impression, you have to weigh that against the equally poor impression left by writing that sounds weird, awkward, or occasionally incorrect. Finding the sweet spot is difficult, but your advice is invaluable. Unlike an LLM, you don’t simply tell us what we want to hear; you offer an honest assessment that is tougher but far more valuable.
I agree that it did a good job, though there’s just enough LLM-smell in the “polished version” that I think it’d be best to ignore it, or even say “please don’t give me a polished version, only line notes that are clear on their level of grammatical objectivity” in the prompt.
Thank you. In this comment I posted my raw imperfect writing, but otherwise I often procede just like you did. However the questions discussed in the FAQ arise often concerning more developed writings. It is tempting to let the LLM do more work, and it would be stupid to reject assistance just because it comes from a machine. It would be like a lumberjack refusing a chainsaw. But I think that JusticeMills is utterly right. We must be very careful and accept only a very limited amount of assistance.
broken english, sloppy grammar, but clear outline and readability (using headers well, not writing in a single paragraph (and avoiding unnecessarily deep nesting (both of which I’m terrible at and don’t want to improve on for casual commenting (though in this comment I’m exaggerating it for funsies)))) in otherwise highly intellectually competent writing which makes clear and well-aimed points, has become, to my eye, an unambiguous shining green flag. I can’t speak for anyone else.
For what it’s worth, I think that Justis hits the nail on the head with “I think probably under current conditions, broken English is less of a red flag for people than LLM-ese.” In such a global language as English, people naturally give slack. (Also, non-native speakers are kind of in an adversarial situation with LLM-ese, since it’s harder to detect when you aren’t as immersed in standard American/British English.)
Concrete example: my parents, whose English is fairly weak, always say that one of the nice things about America is that people are linguistically generous. They illustrate it like this: “In our country, if people can’t understand you, they think it’s your fault. In America, they think it’s theirs.” I think the same is true of the internet, especially somewhere like LessWrong.
On a practical note, I think spellcheckers like those in Docs and Word are sufficient for these contexts. In academic writing or whatever, when standard English serves more of a signaling function, it’s trickier.