The fact that the people involved apparently find it uniquely difficult to talk about is a pretty good indication that Leverage != CFAR/MIRI in terms of cultishness/harms etc.
Avi
Karma: 221
I’m sure it’ll be fine :-)
I’m not involved in this in any way, but from the comments I’ve seen of yours in these threads you’ve shown great honesty and openness with everything.
FYI—Geoff will be talking about the history of Leverage and related topics on Twitch tomorrow (Saturday, October 23rd 2021) starting at 10am PT (USA West Coast Time). Apparently Anna Salamon will be joining the discussion as well.
Geoff’s Tweet
Text from the Tweet (for those who don’t use Twitter):
“Hey folks — I’m going live on Twitch, starting this Saturday. Join me, 10am-1pm PT:
twitch.tv/geoffanders
This first stream will be on the topic of the history of my research institute, Leverage Research, and the Rationality community, with @AnnaWSalamon as a guest.”
FYI—Geoff will be talking about the history of Leverage and related topics on Twitch tomorrow (Saturday, October 23rd 2021) starting at 10am PT (USA West Coast Time). Apparently Anna Salamon will be joining the discussion as well.
Geoff’s Tweet
Text from the Tweet (for those who don’t use Twitter):
“Hey folks — I’m going live on Twitch, starting this Saturday. Join me, 10am-1pm PT:
twitch.tv/geoffanders
This first stream will be on the topic of the history of my research institute, Leverage Research, and the Rationality community, with @AnnaWSalamon as a guest.”
I have to say, your extreme/rigid opposition to any form of whatever you’re currently defining as ‘illegal drugs’ reminds me of religious people who have similarly rigid and uncompromising views on things.
Ironically, this also seems to me to be antithetical to rationality...
I agree with the intent of your comment mingyuan, but perhaps the reason for the asymmetry in activity on this post is simply due to the fact that there are an order of magnitude (or several orders of magnitude?) more people with some/any experience and interaction with CFAR/MIRI (especially CFAR) compared to Leverage?
I would agree with you there.
I wouldn’t agree that describing an experience as ‘meaningful’ is antithetical to rationality, though.
In my personal and anecdotal experience, for the people who have a positive experience with psychedelics it really is more your ‘a’ option.
Psychedelics are less about ‘thinking random thoughts that seem meaningful’ and more about what you describe there—reflecting on their actual life and perspectives with a fresh/clear/different perspective.
How does someone thinking that they had a meaningful experience make them less rational?
Most of the wildly successful people that exist in the western world today display current, or displayed prior, ‘willingness to violate drug laws’.
Can someone please clarify what is meant in this conext by ‘Vassar’s group’, or the term ‘Vassarites’ used by others?
My intution previously was that Michael Vassar had no formal ‘group’ or insitution of any kind, and it was just more like ‘a cluster of friends who hung out together a lot’, but this comment makes it seem like something more official.
There’s also these 2 podcasts which cover quite a variety of topics, for anyone who’s interested:
You’ve Got Mel—With Michael Vassar
Jim Rutt Show—Michael Vassar on Passive-Aggressive Revolution
Ideal Format/Frequency of Information Consumption
In refernce to point 1, how would you define ‘illegal drugs’ (as defined by which country/state)?
My understanding is that if you applied that rule (people that have used or currently use ‘illegal drugs’ are not ‘good enough’ to be in the community) it would rule out at least ~90% of the humans I’ve ever interacted with.
Correct—but they are low-risk for those factors (addiction and/or overdose).
Indeed.
Travelling by boat/ship, and transporting things by boat/ship, is ‘Lindy’, as are bicycles.
I haven’t seen/heard anything particularly impressive from him either, but perhaps his ‘best work’ just isn’t written down anywhere?
I agree, and think it’s important to ‘stay grounded’ in the ‘normal world’ if you’re involved in any sort of intense organization or endeavor.
You’ve made some great suggestions.
I would also suggest that having a spouse who preferably isn’t too involved, or involved at all, and maybe even some kids, is another commonality among people who find it easier to avoid going too far down these rabbit holes. Also, having a family is positive in countless other ways, and what I consider part of the ‘good life’ for most people.
Psilocybin-based psychedelics are indeed considered low-risk both in terms of addiction and overdose. This chart sums things up nicely, and is a good thing to ‘pin on your mental fridge’:
You want to stay as close as possible to the bottom left corner of that graph!
Common sense implies that they must be at least partially effective at reducing transmission of various diseases, in the same way that wearing gloves does (i.e. a barrier is created which partially blocks movement of potentially harmful particles).