I really need to get far more strenuous exercise than I currently do, but I can be very uncomfortable exposing myself to any criticism from people I don’t already know. I live on the edge of a village nearby to a woods which I currently walk in occasionally. Other people use it regularly, and as a teenager, I often get the impression they think I’m there to drink or do drugs if I’m there at any time other than approximately three o’clock, when my school gets out, although in fairness drunken teens do litter the area regularly. I often find myself lacking energy and motivation, and I’ve always heard that good exercise can help with depression… I just can’t seem to ever work up the determination to start going running,
If someone with better social skills than I could give me some instructions on how to deal with them, that’d be great, although any other advice is very welcome. I always did my best to keep to the sidelines during PE. I have Asperger’s if that’s any help…
If you can afford it, you may be able to nonverbally signal to onlookers that you are there for Serious Running by showing up in a Serious Running outfit with corresponding accessories.
Thanks, that would be a simple solution. It seems rather obvious now, I just nod, mutter ‘good morning/afternoon’ and run on… which they accept as a response without question because I’m there for Serious Running!
My family’s relatively well off, and my birthday is coming up, so the cost isn’t likely to be a problem unless it’s very expensive. I’ll check out the sports store next time I’m in town and see what sort of kit they have available. Thanks again.
You don’t really need much by way of accessories to signal that you’re running for exercise, just some clothes that are clearly more appropriate for accommodating sweat than for fashion, and probably a water bottle if you’re running long distances.
That is also a valid point. I don’t currently have any exercise clothes beyond old shirts though, so I need to buy some anyway. My wardrobe primarily consists of ‘fade into the background’ gear, and school uniforms, with an old suit jacket kicking around somewhere.
“serious” runners wear whatever they want. This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9aDJfjBApI is Anton Krupicka. He runs ultra-marathons. 100 mile of trail, all of it over 9200 feet in just over 16 hours. That serious enough? He runs in shorts and running shoes, often shoes he’s “modified” himself.
You wanna run, run. If people think you’re getting high, you are. It’s ok, it’s legal.
We all worry about what other think about us, and if we knew what other thought we’d often be offended, hurt, amused, or turned on, but if we let that get in the way of what we know we ought to be doing, well, that’s not exactly smart, is it?
I agree with the “you shouldn’t HAVE to worry about what people think about you” mode of thought, but the point of this excercise is to treat these things as if they were the person’s true rejections.
And if they are their true rejections (which they very well may be), then how is it possible to still excecute X action that they desire to, while circumventing the previously stated rejection.
Assume the LCPW where I implanted a device inside Fergus’ head, which will explode if he worries about what he’s signalling/what others are thinking about him/getting criticism, when he runs. Then propose solutions that let him both run, and not have his head explode. Concrete advice, not just, “Well, if you didn’t think that way, your head wouldn’t explode. So don’t think that way.”
I am treating it as if it’s a blocker to him acting on a goal.
And I never said “you shouldn’t have to worry...”, all I said was that letting what other people think get in the way of doing the right thing isn’t very smart.
Sometimes the best way to overcome a block is to just accept that things are like that and push on. The opinions of strangers is one thing that you cannot (much) influence. You should consider how you appearance and actions look to them because of things like them calling the police because you’re wandering around at 2 in the morning howling along to Norwegian Death Metal, but if you just want to go trail running in a place where other kids like to pour cheap booze down their throats and start on the next generation, then just keep running.
Again, I agree… outside the bounds of this excercise.
I have absolutely no objection to any of your advice, whatsoever. It’s all pretty good advice, if presented a little forcefully. But I get that sort of “tough titties, now do the work” methodology. Nor would I be making any noise if this was only an article about aspiring rationalists giving advice to other aspiring rationalists.
But it isn’t.
The point is to figure out a strategy to AVOID the obstacles presented, not insist that the obstacles be removed. That way the obstacles can no longer be used as an EXCUSE not to do the thing. The point of the Rejection Challenge is to excise excuses not excise obstacles.
The one: “I can’t get from point A to point B because there is a wall in the way.”
The other (1): “Walk around the wall. Get a ladder and climb over it. Get someone to boost you over. Etc., etc.”
The other (2): “Break the wall down, and walk straight from A to B.”
We want to take path 1, not path 2.
ETA: If you disagree with the core point of the excercise, I don’t think anyone would object to you commenting and saying so, while explaining precisely WHY.
Running through the woods half naked wouldn’t make things any easier, you know. I see what you’re saying, but it’s more about keeping my ‘slate’ clean and not getting into trouble for some reason.
...and I recommend getting an iPod and noise-dampening earphones.
Even if you don’t listen to music, they’re good so you don’t have to deal with hearing people and can ignore them more easily.
There seems to also be a body language component, but the presence or absence of a functional music player won’t help with that, either. (I can’t really give advice on the body language bit; my natural body language apparently communicates that I want to be left alone without any effort on my part, and I haven’t investigated what it would take to change that.)
It occurs to me that you could try clothing-based signaling. On further reflection I remembered one period where I did pretty regularly have people approaching me, which involved a particularly nice winter jacket, and ended when I took the (faux, I think) fur-lined hood off of it.
For the opposite effect, I assume one would aim for ‘frumpy’, or at least ‘generic’. My usual wardrobe is fairly boring; I actively avoid anything with a logo on it, and mostly wear plain single-color pants and shirts with uninteresting patterns (subtle all-over paisleys or florals, mostly; I’m not sure what the male equivalent would be). I also picked up a habit a few years ago of wearing a baseball cap whenever I’m out of the house; the incongruity (baseball caps are unusual for females to wear, and I make little to no effort to match my cap with my outfit) might be signaling something useful, but people were already approaching me infrequently enough before I picked the habit up that I can’t really tell if it’s made a difference.
I also seldom get bothered when I’m out and about. I wear single-color, logo-free shirts (though often bright red or green), with black or grey carhartt pants (which are pretty normal here), and a backpack. I often wear a jacket, even when it is warm, to hold my stuff and because I work in a climate-controlled room. Furthermore, I pay almost no attention to my head or facial hair. So about once a year, I shave off all my hair, and maybe thrice a year do I shave my beard. Needless to say, I exude “don’t bother me!” when I’m walking or shopping.
What is rather strange is that one of my closest friends dresses similarly, but is often harassed by strangers. Even to the point that he is sometimes stopped by cops to ask why he’s walking. The biggest difference between his and my dispositions is that I flatly don’t give a crap about most of the people I see, or what they think of me, whereas he is always thinking about how he is perceived. It seems that by worrying that he might look like a child molester sends off social cues that he is guilty about something, which then makes him a target for more harassment.
It is true that I don’t go walking as often as he does, so my sample size is smaller. Nor do I go to as weird places, because he would often stop at wifi hotspots to write emails. It could also be that my backpack sent social cues that being unencumbered doesn’t.
I am someone who generally throws a pair of whatever seems will be appropriate for the weather (pants or shorts) and a random t-shirt on. I am not even sure if i match most of the time. I have a beard which is quite uncommon for men in our society(which to me is mildly sad)
I am someone who generally throws a pair of whatever seems will be appropriate for the weather (pants or shorts) and a random t-shirt on. I am not even sure if i match most of the time. I have a beard which is quite umcommon for men in our society(which to me is mildly sad)
Are the t-shirts plain, or do they have designs (text, images) on them? What are the designs? Do they signal affiliation in any way? What’s your usual context?
...oh and I should also point out that to make proper noise-canceling headphones work they do need to actually be plugged in and active. If you’re going to be walking through noisy places and want quiet, you’ll need the iPod too.
… not that this should at all get in the way of your excellent riposte ;)
Normally I’d take the advice, but the woods is owned by the forestry commission. They’re subsidised by the government on condition that they let the public, e.g. me, have access, but they run a forestry college there. With all the heavy machinery and chainsaws that implies appearing every so often. I didn’t mention it, so you weren’t to know, but I’d prefer to be a little safer in exchange for the added boredom and exposure to noise.
I run a decent amount and I used to be self-conscious about it. Eventually I realized: What does it matter what random strangers think? Their opinion of you has no effect on your life. They won’t even know your name or remember your face.
Now it doesn’t feel the least bit unusual when I ignore people. I’m breathing hard. In a few minutes I’ll be half a mile away from this person. Why spend the effort to make eye contact and nod?
You could always exercise at home. Pushups, squats, and crunches are all easy muscle building exercises there. I personally love “DDR” (video game) for this—a used copy of the game, a cheap dance mat, and a used PS/2 can be had for under $100 pretty easily.
I also occasionally just jog or walk especially fast during my normal day. I’ve never had anyone comment on it, even when I do this downtown. Amongst other things, I’m moving faster than them ;)
I would second the suggestion of “self modify so you don’t mind if people think you’re high”, but I don’t think that’s the simplest way to get exercise :)
I really need to get far more strenuous exercise than I currently do, but I can be very uncomfortable exposing myself to any criticism from people I don’t already know. I live on the edge of a village nearby to a woods which I currently walk in occasionally. Other people use it regularly, and as a teenager, I often get the impression they think I’m there to drink or do drugs if I’m there at any time other than approximately three o’clock, when my school gets out, although in fairness drunken teens do litter the area regularly. I often find myself lacking energy and motivation, and I’ve always heard that good exercise can help with depression… I just can’t seem to ever work up the determination to start going running,
If someone with better social skills than I could give me some instructions on how to deal with them, that’d be great, although any other advice is very welcome. I always did my best to keep to the sidelines during PE. I have Asperger’s if that’s any help…
If you can afford it, you may be able to nonverbally signal to onlookers that you are there for Serious Running by showing up in a Serious Running outfit with corresponding accessories.
Thanks, that would be a simple solution. It seems rather obvious now, I just nod, mutter ‘good morning/afternoon’ and run on… which they accept as a response without question because I’m there for Serious Running!
My family’s relatively well off, and my birthday is coming up, so the cost isn’t likely to be a problem unless it’s very expensive. I’ll check out the sports store next time I’m in town and see what sort of kit they have available. Thanks again.
You don’t really need much by way of accessories to signal that you’re running for exercise, just some clothes that are clearly more appropriate for accommodating sweat than for fashion, and probably a water bottle if you’re running long distances.
That is also a valid point. I don’t currently have any exercise clothes beyond old shirts though, so I need to buy some anyway. My wardrobe primarily consists of ‘fade into the background’ gear, and school uniforms, with an old suit jacket kicking around somewhere.
“serious” runners wear whatever they want. This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9aDJfjBApI is Anton Krupicka. He runs ultra-marathons. 100 mile of trail, all of it over 9200 feet in just over 16 hours. That serious enough? He runs in shorts and running shoes, often shoes he’s “modified” himself.
You wanna run, run. If people think you’re getting high, you are. It’s ok, it’s legal.
We all worry about what other think about us, and if we knew what other thought we’d often be offended, hurt, amused, or turned on, but if we let that get in the way of what we know we ought to be doing, well, that’s not exactly smart, is it?
I agree with the “you shouldn’t HAVE to worry about what people think about you” mode of thought, but the point of this excercise is to treat these things as if they were the person’s true rejections.
And if they are their true rejections (which they very well may be), then how is it possible to still excecute X action that they desire to, while circumventing the previously stated rejection.
Assume the LCPW where I implanted a device inside Fergus’ head, which will explode if he worries about what he’s signalling/what others are thinking about him/getting criticism, when he runs. Then propose solutions that let him both run, and not have his head explode. Concrete advice, not just, “Well, if you didn’t think that way, your head wouldn’t explode. So don’t think that way.”
I am treating it as if it’s a blocker to him acting on a goal.
And I never said “you shouldn’t have to worry...”, all I said was that letting what other people think get in the way of doing the right thing isn’t very smart.
Sometimes the best way to overcome a block is to just accept that things are like that and push on. The opinions of strangers is one thing that you cannot (much) influence. You should consider how you appearance and actions look to them because of things like them calling the police because you’re wandering around at 2 in the morning howling along to Norwegian Death Metal, but if you just want to go trail running in a place where other kids like to pour cheap booze down their throats and start on the next generation, then just keep running.
Again, I agree… outside the bounds of this excercise.
I have absolutely no objection to any of your advice, whatsoever. It’s all pretty good advice, if presented a little forcefully. But I get that sort of “tough titties, now do the work” methodology. Nor would I be making any noise if this was only an article about aspiring rationalists giving advice to other aspiring rationalists.
But it isn’t.
The point is to figure out a strategy to AVOID the obstacles presented, not insist that the obstacles be removed. That way the obstacles can no longer be used as an EXCUSE not to do the thing. The point of the Rejection Challenge is to excise excuses not excise obstacles.
The one: “I can’t get from point A to point B because there is a wall in the way.” The other (1): “Walk around the wall. Get a ladder and climb over it. Get someone to boost you over. Etc., etc.” The other (2): “Break the wall down, and walk straight from A to B.”
We want to take path 1, not path 2.
ETA: If you disagree with the core point of the excercise, I don’t think anyone would object to you commenting and saying so, while explaining precisely WHY.
...
Running through the woods half naked wouldn’t make things any easier, you know. I see what you’re saying, but it’s more about keeping my ‘slate’ clean and not getting into trouble for some reason.
If you’re running a 6 or 7 minute mile they won’t bother you. And if they decide they want to bother you they have to catch you.
...and I recommend getting an iPod and noise-dampening earphones. Even if you don’t listen to music, they’re good so you don’t have to deal with hearing people and can ignore them more easily.
If you just want to have an excuse to ignore people, the player is superfluous; the earphones are the signaling part.
Yeah, but they have a useful clip to hold the other end of the earphones steady :)
Darn expensive for a clip, though. ;)
Pfft i listen to something on my ipod quite a lot and people still seem to try to talk to me.
There seems to also be a body language component, but the presence or absence of a functional music player won’t help with that, either. (I can’t really give advice on the body language bit; my natural body language apparently communicates that I want to be left alone without any effort on my part, and I haven’t investigated what it would take to change that.)
you are a lucky bastard then. I might even have my eyes closed with my headphones on and people will talk to me.
It occurs to me that you could try clothing-based signaling. On further reflection I remembered one period where I did pretty regularly have people approaching me, which involved a particularly nice winter jacket, and ended when I took the (faux, I think) fur-lined hood off of it.
For the opposite effect, I assume one would aim for ‘frumpy’, or at least ‘generic’. My usual wardrobe is fairly boring; I actively avoid anything with a logo on it, and mostly wear plain single-color pants and shirts with uninteresting patterns (subtle all-over paisleys or florals, mostly; I’m not sure what the male equivalent would be). I also picked up a habit a few years ago of wearing a baseball cap whenever I’m out of the house; the incongruity (baseball caps are unusual for females to wear, and I make little to no effort to match my cap with my outfit) might be signaling something useful, but people were already approaching me infrequently enough before I picked the habit up that I can’t really tell if it’s made a difference.
I also seldom get bothered when I’m out and about. I wear single-color, logo-free shirts (though often bright red or green), with black or grey carhartt pants (which are pretty normal here), and a backpack. I often wear a jacket, even when it is warm, to hold my stuff and because I work in a climate-controlled room. Furthermore, I pay almost no attention to my head or facial hair. So about once a year, I shave off all my hair, and maybe thrice a year do I shave my beard. Needless to say, I exude “don’t bother me!” when I’m walking or shopping.
What is rather strange is that one of my closest friends dresses similarly, but is often harassed by strangers. Even to the point that he is sometimes stopped by cops to ask why he’s walking. The biggest difference between his and my dispositions is that I flatly don’t give a crap about most of the people I see, or what they think of me, whereas he is always thinking about how he is perceived. It seems that by worrying that he might look like a child molester sends off social cues that he is guilty about something, which then makes him a target for more harassment.
It is true that I don’t go walking as often as he does, so my sample size is smaller. Nor do I go to as weird places, because he would often stop at wifi hotspots to write emails. It could also be that my backpack sent social cues that being unencumbered doesn’t.
I am someone who generally throws a pair of whatever seems will be appropriate for the weather (pants or shorts) and a random t-shirt on. I am not even sure if i match most of the time. I have a beard which is quite uncommon for men in our society(which to me is mildly sad)
I am someone who generally throws a pair of whatever seems will be appropriate for the weather (pants or shorts) and a random t-shirt on. I am not even sure if i match most of the time. I have a beard which is quite umcommon for men in our society(which to me is mildly sad)
Are the t-shirts plain, or do they have designs (text, images) on them? What are the designs? Do they signal affiliation in any way? What’s your usual context?
I wonder are these people you know, and if so is there anything about your reputation that might encourage them?
No these are bus drivers and random people on the bus.
...oh and I should also point out that to make proper noise-canceling headphones work they do need to actually be plugged in and active. If you’re going to be walking through noisy places and want quiet, you’ll need the iPod too.
… not that this should at all get in the way of your excellent riposte ;)
Normally I’d take the advice, but the woods is owned by the forestry commission. They’re subsidised by the government on condition that they let the public, e.g. me, have access, but they run a forestry college there. With all the heavy machinery and chainsaws that implies appearing every so often. I didn’t mention it, so you weren’t to know, but I’d prefer to be a little safer in exchange for the added boredom and exposure to noise.
Yes—extremely good point.
I also recommend allowing yourself to hear if wandering around near traffic.
Being able to hear “watch out for that bus!” has very high utility.
I run a decent amount and I used to be self-conscious about it. Eventually I realized: What does it matter what random strangers think? Their opinion of you has no effect on your life. They won’t even know your name or remember your face.
Now it doesn’t feel the least bit unusual when I ignore people. I’m breathing hard. In a few minutes I’ll be half a mile away from this person. Why spend the effort to make eye contact and nod?
You could always exercise at home. Pushups, squats, and crunches are all easy muscle building exercises there. I personally love “DDR” (video game) for this—a used copy of the game, a cheap dance mat, and a used PS/2 can be had for under $100 pretty easily.
I also occasionally just jog or walk especially fast during my normal day. I’ve never had anyone comment on it, even when I do this downtown. Amongst other things, I’m moving faster than them ;)
I would second the suggestion of “self modify so you don’t mind if people think you’re high”, but I don’t think that’s the simplest way to get exercise :)