I’m not sure it’s irrational to reject the existence of infinity. (And thus things which involve such a thing, whether it’s infinite power, knowledge, or an infinitely high stack of turtles.*)
*If the earth is flat, what is it sitting on? (Might be in ‘a history of time’, perhaps the introduction.)
If there’s no evidence that will change someone’s mind on an issue like this, it I will say with a high probability that they’re not thinking rationally about that topic.
That (probably) makes sense. That being said, I think people thinking rationally might have ‘stronger’ (or more intense) positions than yours—though I don’t know it in its entirety, so that’s just a guess. (For instance, while I’m not a fan of misinformation, I think that parties (government or otherwise) that work to control speech may be a threat to...well everything? Like, how do you have democracy without freedom of information and speech?)
Given photoDNA is a black box consisting of (something like) hashes, have there ever been attempts to abuse that to restrict other types of pictures?
While I’m here:
If you poke around here, he might have had something relevant to say. I remember a quote at least:
You might find that article relevant. (If you get bored while reading stuff you’ve already heard/agree with, skip to the relevant section by scrolling; the article is relatively short, and what you’re looking for will be towards the end.)
(I’m starting to think I should have made a linkpost, and directed you to that.)
Even if PhotoDNA some day 86s vague “extremist content” it’s still better than the alternative of a Facebook-like algorithm trying to get people maximally engaged with KP because it’s not filtered anywhere.
I don’t know that open-sourcing it would be better. The value of open-source code as a security/integrity measure depends entirely on the number of competent people reviewing it. The first example that comes to mind is 7-zip’s encryption issues from a few years ago. There’s probably thousands of issues like this across commonly used applications and libraries that we’re not aware of, because there’s very little incentive for competent people to spend their free time reviewing code.
I’ll say again—I don’t believe Tess or Bret or anyone advocating Ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment should be censored or 86′d for expressing that POV… and true to the analogy, even if people are 86′d from a bar one night, banning them for life is an entirely different thing that’s way worse.
I don’t know that open-sourcing it would be better.
By open source...I meant everyone has access and can use it. If it’s a tool necessary for complying with the laws around operating in the U.S., then it should probably be freely available. (I also don’t like facebook, and possible barriers to someone coming up with an alternative seem undesirable.)
I’m also curious about how the algorithm works. Hashing, but for images, in a way that recognizes similarity...I could use that. In general, saving stuff to prevent link rot is a good idea. In practice, if you don’t want to save everything, a way to:
recognize you’ve found what you’re looking for
or something similar
which is automatic, and can do the filtering so I don’t have to go back and look to see if it’s right
would be pretty useful. (There is an obvious alternative, though it wouldn’t be quite as space efficient.)
Even if PhotoDNA some day[...]
The temporal aspect (each version being available) would also reduce or prevent issues around updates.
I don’t know a lot about Aaron Swartz (any good sources you’d recommend would be appreciated). From the little I do know, I think he wouldn’t just be ‘disappointed’, I think he’d try to do something about it.
There’s probably thousands of issues like this across commonly used applications and libraries that we’re not aware of, because there’s very little incentive for competent people to spend their free time reviewing code.
Yeah. In theory, if someone decides to fix something, then a lot of people can get the benefit. Unfortunately the same is true of laziness...
Facebook-like algorithm trying to get people maximally engaged
I can imagine facebook’s algorithm trying that—stuff like this (choice of ads) is not encouraging. (Wayback link for those who abhor trackers, etc.)
I don’t know a lot about Aaron Swartz (any good sources you’d recommend would be appreciated). From the little I do know, I think he wouldn’t just be ‘disappointed’, I think he’d try to do something about it.
There’s an excellent documentary called The Internet’s Own Boy from 2014.
Towards the end there’s a long scroll of all the technologies and organizations he’s responsible for. It’s humbling. Sometimes I think I’m clever, and maybe I am, but there’s people so much better than me.
It’s fine. I too could have been more clear:
I’m not sure it’s irrational to reject the existence of infinity. (And thus things which involve such a thing, whether it’s infinite power, knowledge, or an infinitely high stack of turtles.*)
*If the earth is flat, what is it sitting on? (Might be in ‘a history of time’, perhaps the introduction.)
That (probably) makes sense. That being said, I think people thinking rationally might have ‘stronger’ (or more intense) positions than yours—though I don’t know it in its entirety, so that’s just a guess. (For instance, while I’m not a fan of misinformation, I think that parties (government or otherwise) that work to control speech may be a threat to...well everything? Like, how do you have democracy without freedom of information and speech?)
Given photoDNA is a black box consisting of (something like) hashes, have there ever been attempts to abuse that to restrict other types of pictures?
While I’m here:
If you poke around here, he might have had something relevant to say. I remember a quote at least:
http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ or https://web.archive.org/web/20210414043231/http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ if you like https.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200629030500if_/https://snew.notabug.io/r/all Here it is:
I don’t think the website is run by someone who is dead, though for all I know he was involved with the project while alive. So what’s the source?
That link (above ‘bits...’) goes here: https://web.archive.org/web/20201013131802/http://archive.is/d4NPt
You might find that article relevant. (If you get bored while reading stuff you’ve already heard/agree with, skip to the relevant section by scrolling; the article is relatively short, and what you’re looking for will be towards the end.)
(I’m starting to think I should have made a linkpost, and directed you to that.)
The Wikipedia article suggests that as of 2016 there were plans to use it for “extremist content”.
I would mostly say the same thing here I said to ChristianKl above regarding censorship vs. 86ing.
There are few technologists that I respect more than Aaron Swartz. But I wonder if he was alive now if he wouldn’t have joined the ranks of people, like Richard Stallman, who built foundational Internet technology who are disappointed with the way it’s turned out?
Even if PhotoDNA some day 86s vague “extremist content” it’s still better than the alternative of a Facebook-like algorithm trying to get people maximally engaged with KP because it’s not filtered anywhere.
I don’t know that open-sourcing it would be better. The value of open-source code as a security/integrity measure depends entirely on the number of competent people reviewing it. The first example that comes to mind is 7-zip’s encryption issues from a few years ago. There’s probably thousands of issues like this across commonly used applications and libraries that we’re not aware of, because there’s very little incentive for competent people to spend their free time reviewing code.
I’ll say again—I don’t believe Tess or Bret or anyone advocating Ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment should be censored or 86′d for expressing that POV… and true to the analogy, even if people are 86′d from a bar one night, banning them for life is an entirely different thing that’s way worse.
By open source...I meant everyone has access and can use it. If it’s a tool necessary for complying with the laws around operating in the U.S., then it should probably be freely available. (I also don’t like facebook, and possible barriers to someone coming up with an alternative seem undesirable.)
I’m also curious about how the algorithm works. Hashing, but for images, in a way that recognizes similarity...I could use that. In general, saving stuff to prevent link rot is a good idea. In practice, if you don’t want to save everything, a way to:
recognize you’ve found what you’re looking for
or something similar
which is automatic, and can do the filtering so I don’t have to go back and look to see if it’s right
would be pretty useful. (There is an obvious alternative, though it wouldn’t be quite as space efficient.)
The temporal aspect (each version being available) would also reduce or prevent issues around updates.
I don’t know a lot about Aaron Swartz (any good sources you’d recommend would be appreciated). From the little I do know, I think he wouldn’t just be ‘disappointed’, I think he’d try to do something about it.
Yeah. In theory, if someone decides to fix something, then a lot of people can get the benefit. Unfortunately the same is true of laziness...
I can imagine facebook’s algorithm trying that—stuff like this (choice of ads) is not encouraging. (Wayback link for those who abhor trackers, etc.)
There’s an excellent documentary called The Internet’s Own Boy from 2014.
Towards the end there’s a long scroll of all the technologies and organizations he’s responsible for. It’s humbling. Sometimes I think I’m clever, and maybe I am, but there’s people so much better than me.