it’s outright irreversible wireheading. It might be good, but if it turns out that there are better options, then you just screwed yourself out of them.
For one, they report emotions simply not coming up anymore without having to apply any method. There doesn’t seem to be an obvious way to undo that.
But more importantly, I strongly suspect it changes your values. Once you wirehead, you won’t want to un-wirehead. (Though a benevolent mad neuroscientist might still ‘save’ you.)
I accidentally lost emotions (disgust, then sorrow). They came back spontaneously once I got out of the situation that caused it, with only rather ordinary and reversible-seeming changes in when I feel them. Don’t know if this applies to generalized emotion-nuking.
What do you want to know? The methods are probably partially reproducible (though I’d expect high variance), but you seriously don’t want to.
I was under pretty heavy stress during my whole childhood and early adolescence, and gradually lost things as a result (self-control in many areas, some intelligence, some memory). I was also a neat freak and hated e.g. showering in a dirty bathtub (plus some mild sensory issues), but normal habituation tempered that. In mid-adolescence I found a way out, but it blew up on me and I went depressed/emotionally numb for a few years.
At one point I started being completely unaffected by disgusting things I had to do, even though I consciously knew I’d normally be. At one point I was perplexed and went digging for something in a trash bag mostly as a test. Moral disgust was also decreased, but didn’t completely disappear.
One or two years later, I also lost sorrow. When bad things happened, I felt indignation and anger and guilt and compassion and self-pity if applicable and all the rest of my usual reaction, but with a big gaping hole in the middle saying “Sorrow goes here”. It was confusing.
A few months after that, I moved, changed schools, and started work on a big plans, with the expectation I would get better and regain some of the lost functions. Sorrow came back in a few weeks—I was mulling over an unrequited crush, noticed I was sad, and was happy about being sad for the day. Disgust came back sometime later, slightly more gradually.
Now I have about normal (though wildly varying depending on body awareness) levels of disgust. My reaction to bad things has changed (roughly, I want to fight, not mourn) so it doesn’t include sorrow, but it doesn’t feel like “Error: emotions/sorrow not found” either. I think I could train to feel sad about bad events, but it doesn’t seem productive (I’m prone to self-pity). Sorrow is a pleasant emotion, a kind of luxury, to revel in over a crush or after a play with failed heroic sacrifices—not appropriate for 150000 deaths. Obviously this comes from my glee over getting sorrow back.
There doesn’t seem to be an obvious way to undo that.
blinks I’ve built emotions by observing that others have them and seeking to emulate it. The clearest example for me is that I didn’t use to have any real empathy/sympathy responses—people’s emotions were as meaningful to me as the state of a toy; it bothered me insomuch as it might mean my toy was broken, that’s it. These days I have a fairly robust sense of empathy, but I can still turn it on and off fairly easily, and I don’t let it interfere with exploration of more useful responses.
I’ve also done experiments with removing entire emotions for ~24 hours, setting specific external triggers that will snap me back (and making sure at least one person knows some of what I’ve done, so they can try to talk me out of it if I’ve accidentally wireheaded myself in to a state where I want to stay wireheaded)
Why should it be particularly irreversible?
For one, they report emotions simply not coming up anymore without having to apply any method. There doesn’t seem to be an obvious way to undo that.
But more importantly, I strongly suspect it changes your values. Once you wirehead, you won’t want to un-wirehead. (Though a benevolent mad neuroscientist might still ‘save’ you.)
I accidentally lost emotions (disgust, then sorrow). They came back spontaneously once I got out of the situation that caused it, with only rather ordinary and reversible-seeming changes in when I feel them. Don’t know if this applies to generalized emotion-nuking.
Are you willing to share some of the details or at least methods? That sounds like an interesting story.
What do you want to know? The methods are probably partially reproducible (though I’d expect high variance), but you seriously don’t want to.
I was under pretty heavy stress during my whole childhood and early adolescence, and gradually lost things as a result (self-control in many areas, some intelligence, some memory). I was also a neat freak and hated e.g. showering in a dirty bathtub (plus some mild sensory issues), but normal habituation tempered that. In mid-adolescence I found a way out, but it blew up on me and I went depressed/emotionally numb for a few years.
At one point I started being completely unaffected by disgusting things I had to do, even though I consciously knew I’d normally be. At one point I was perplexed and went digging for something in a trash bag mostly as a test. Moral disgust was also decreased, but didn’t completely disappear.
One or two years later, I also lost sorrow. When bad things happened, I felt indignation and anger and guilt and compassion and self-pity if applicable and all the rest of my usual reaction, but with a big gaping hole in the middle saying “Sorrow goes here”. It was confusing.
A few months after that, I moved, changed schools, and started work on a big plans, with the expectation I would get better and regain some of the lost functions. Sorrow came back in a few weeks—I was mulling over an unrequited crush, noticed I was sad, and was happy about being sad for the day. Disgust came back sometime later, slightly more gradually.
Now I have about normal (though wildly varying depending on body awareness) levels of disgust. My reaction to bad things has changed (roughly, I want to fight, not mourn) so it doesn’t include sorrow, but it doesn’t feel like “Error: emotions/sorrow not found” either. I think I could train to feel sad about bad events, but it doesn’t seem productive (I’m prone to self-pity). Sorrow is a pleasant emotion, a kind of luxury, to revel in over a crush or after a play with failed heroic sacrifices—not appropriate for 150000 deaths. Obviously this comes from my glee over getting sorrow back.
Interesting.. Thanks for the reply.
I think I’ll pass on replicating it :p
blinks I’ve built emotions by observing that others have them and seeking to emulate it. The clearest example for me is that I didn’t use to have any real empathy/sympathy responses—people’s emotions were as meaningful to me as the state of a toy; it bothered me insomuch as it might mean my toy was broken, that’s it. These days I have a fairly robust sense of empathy, but I can still turn it on and off fairly easily, and I don’t let it interfere with exploration of more useful responses.
I’ve also done experiments with removing entire emotions for ~24 hours, setting specific external triggers that will snap me back (and making sure at least one person knows some of what I’ve done, so they can try to talk me out of it if I’ve accidentally wireheaded myself in to a state where I want to stay wireheaded)