> First, let me push back on your push-back on the “declare victory” comment. In the very same sentence as that comment I added: “but arguments aren’t meant to be about winning and losing around here”.
Yeah, I think my comment came across stronger/differently than I meant it to (and re-reading both your comment and mine I think that’s a mistake on my part).
I meant something like “I see that we’re both arguing in good faith and trying to do a good thing, but it feels a little sad that the ‘victory’ mindset from traditional debate is still lingering at all.”
For comparison: there were multiple times when I wrote recent comments on Double Crux that I accidentally wrote “your opponent.” In both cases, you and I generally were approaching things in the right mindset, but I think it’s a good habit, when one notices creeping “opposition-mindness” to flag it and let it pass.
Rereading your comment I think that is what you were intended to do, I just didn’t initially read it that way. Sorry.
Wrapping Up
So it sounded like some final things potentially worth doing are:
a) Actually put some effort into operationalizing the survey thing. (It so happens that the survey is in-the-zeitgeist right now, but it looks like this year’s survey was already pretty long).
I am interested in talking to the survey-folk about doing something with this next year. It doesn’t feel pressing to me to continue with this in the immediate future but seemed at least worth considering.
b) Potentially, take what we’ve written here and turn it into something more easily digestible (or maybe just more easily findable) as a publicly-available transcript. (Basically, I think turning our series of comments into a single top-level post would be useful. Is that something you’d be okay with and/or interested in doing?)
I’ve no objection to making our comments into a top-level post. My only concern (which has nothing to do with its being our comments rather than anyone else’s) is that this would fall firmly into the category of discussion of the community rather than discussion of the things the community is about, and maybe that’s a thing we want less of rather than more.
It occurs to me that I said something ambiguous. By “I’ve no objection to making our comments into a top-level post” I meant “I’ve no objection to our comments being made into a top-level post”; I wasn’t saying anything about my willingness or unwillingness to do the work myself.
… I suppose I should answer the obvious followup question. I don’t mind doing the work myself but if I do it’s likely to be quite some time before I get round to it. If someone else does the work I don’t mind offering constructive criticism, corrections, etc., and would probably be quicker about doing that.
> First, let me push back on your push-back on the “declare victory” comment. In the very same sentence as that comment I added: “but arguments aren’t meant to be about winning and losing around here”.
Yeah, I think my comment came across stronger/differently than I meant it to (and re-reading both your comment and mine I think that’s a mistake on my part).
I meant something like “I see that we’re both arguing in good faith and trying to do a good thing, but it feels a little sad that the ‘victory’ mindset from traditional debate is still lingering at all.”
For comparison: there were multiple times when I wrote recent comments on Double Crux that I accidentally wrote “your opponent.” In both cases, you and I generally were approaching things in the right mindset, but I think it’s a good habit, when one notices creeping “opposition-mindness” to flag it and let it pass.
Rereading your comment I think that is what you were intended to do, I just didn’t initially read it that way. Sorry.
Wrapping Up
So it sounded like some final things potentially worth doing are:
a) Actually put some effort into operationalizing the survey thing. (It so happens that the survey is in-the-zeitgeist right now, but it looks like this year’s survey was already pretty long).
I am interested in talking to the survey-folk about doing something with this next year. It doesn’t feel pressing to me to continue with this in the immediate future but seemed at least worth considering.
b) Potentially, take what we’ve written here and turn it into something more easily digestible (or maybe just more easily findable) as a publicly-available transcript. (Basically, I think turning our series of comments into a single top-level post would be useful. Is that something you’d be okay with and/or interested in doing?)
Apology accepted, obviously.
I’ve no objection to making our comments into a top-level post. My only concern (which has nothing to do with its being our comments rather than anyone else’s) is that this would fall firmly into the category of discussion of the community rather than discussion of the things the community is about, and maybe that’s a thing we want less of rather than more.
Ah, gotcha. Maybe make it a Meta post in this case.
Yeah, I think it should be Meta.
It occurs to me that I said something ambiguous. By “I’ve no objection to making our comments into a top-level post” I meant “I’ve no objection to our comments being made into a top-level post”; I wasn’t saying anything about my willingness or unwillingness to do the work myself.
… I suppose I should answer the obvious followup question. I don’t mind doing the work myself but if I do it’s likely to be quite some time before I get round to it. If someone else does the work I don’t mind offering constructive criticism, corrections, etc., and would probably be quicker about doing that.
I actually went ahead and did it last night (wording was ambiguous but seemed to imply you weren’t up for it in near future anyway)
So here it is. If you feel any of my commentary is misrepresenting you let me know.