Those roles are highly valued because they are high in status, come with power and are an established part of the authority system of the culture.
Are you kidding? What actual power does a firefighter or soldier have, at the bottom rung of the power structure? How about an EMT or a rescue um, tech? (What do they call people who rescue people?) What about lifeguards?
Perceived willingness to sacrifice for your principles is in this case definitely not a (positive) contributing factor to the attractiveness of those high status roles.
Conflating everything with “status” or “power” isn’t useful here. There are occupations that don’t give you extra respect or deference in society at large, and yet still have the increased attractiveness due to association with principle. Artists and musicians, for example, can often get this attractiveness bonus even if they lack any power or status in society at large… and in fact, the choice to sacrifice money or power for their creative principles is often a driving factor in that attractiveness.
Are you kidding? What actual power does a firefighter or soldier have, at the bottom rung of the power structure?
The power over life and death. Being one of those who enforces the rules rather than the one enforced upon (with all the benefits that entails—see anything by Robin with the keyword ‘homo hippocritus’).
I don’t accept your premises regarding artists either. I think it will be better for us to simply acknowledge that we fundamentally disagree on this particular topic. It has been my observation that many of your presented beliefs are better optimised for being healthy beliefs to instil in people than as raw descriptions of reality. (That too I obviously don’t expect you to agree on, although I don’t mean it as a slight. It is a valuable role, just not compatible with my thinking.)
The power over life and death. Being one of those who enforces the rules rather than the one enforced upon.
Actually, these professions have vastly more rules imposed upon them. And what rules does an EMT enforce? “Power of life and death” doesn’t make a lot of sense here, nor does it make sense for artists or musicians.
Your statements don’t reflect a consistent model here, as it doesn’t have any consistent predictions about what professions should and shouldn’t be considered attractive. Instead, you just change your explanations, or avoid giving an explanation entirely. (e.g. “I don’t accept your premises regarding artists”).
OTOH, I’m making a testable prediction: an observable increase on average in indicators of attraction, admiration, or arousal (facial expression & autonomic responses) among women hearing about men who are in some profession that involves personal sacrifice for others or for a principle, controlled for whether the profession has any actual societal status or power, and provided that the principles or persons sacrificed for are not directly and personally opposed by the listener as a matter of vengeance or personal principles.
For example, I would predict that participation in say, a Big Brother program, or other volunteer activity would make a man be considered more attractive than a person who did not so volunteer, provided that their other attractiveness factors were considered.
I do not predict that power, status, an so on are not attractive; I’m just saying they’re orthogonal to the element of ability to effectively precommit, whether it’s to sacrifice for others or for one’s principles. Either way, evidence of ability to successfully follow through on a precommitment is attractive in a person.
Are you kidding? What actual power does a firefighter or soldier have, at the bottom rung of the power structure? How about an EMT or a rescue um, tech? (What do they call people who rescue people?) What about lifeguards?
Conflating everything with “status” or “power” isn’t useful here. There are occupations that don’t give you extra respect or deference in society at large, and yet still have the increased attractiveness due to association with principle. Artists and musicians, for example, can often get this attractiveness bonus even if they lack any power or status in society at large… and in fact, the choice to sacrifice money or power for their creative principles is often a driving factor in that attractiveness.
The power over life and death. Being one of those who enforces the rules rather than the one enforced upon (with all the benefits that entails—see anything by Robin with the keyword ‘homo hippocritus’).
I don’t accept your premises regarding artists either. I think it will be better for us to simply acknowledge that we fundamentally disagree on this particular topic. It has been my observation that many of your presented beliefs are better optimised for being healthy beliefs to instil in people than as raw descriptions of reality. (That too I obviously don’t expect you to agree on, although I don’t mean it as a slight. It is a valuable role, just not compatible with my thinking.)
Actually, these professions have vastly more rules imposed upon them. And what rules does an EMT enforce? “Power of life and death” doesn’t make a lot of sense here, nor does it make sense for artists or musicians.
Your statements don’t reflect a consistent model here, as it doesn’t have any consistent predictions about what professions should and shouldn’t be considered attractive. Instead, you just change your explanations, or avoid giving an explanation entirely. (e.g. “I don’t accept your premises regarding artists”).
OTOH, I’m making a testable prediction: an observable increase on average in indicators of attraction, admiration, or arousal (facial expression & autonomic responses) among women hearing about men who are in some profession that involves personal sacrifice for others or for a principle, controlled for whether the profession has any actual societal status or power, and provided that the principles or persons sacrificed for are not directly and personally opposed by the listener as a matter of vengeance or personal principles.
For example, I would predict that participation in say, a Big Brother program, or other volunteer activity would make a man be considered more attractive than a person who did not so volunteer, provided that their other attractiveness factors were considered.
I do not predict that power, status, an so on are not attractive; I’m just saying they’re orthogonal to the element of ability to effectively precommit, whether it’s to sacrifice for others or for one’s principles. Either way, evidence of ability to successfully follow through on a precommitment is attractive in a person.