I don’t like this. It looks like you pressured the kid to stop crying and just hide their feelings (“I told them that I couldn’t understand and asked if they could speak normally”).
Also, it seems unlikely to me that the kid’s real reason for getting upset was that “they were worried the pasta was going to run out and they would still be hungry after dinner”. But still, I observe that this is what the kid said. From this I infer that either you, in this situation, or the kid’s social environment, before this situation, pressured the kid into generating fake but socially acceptable explanations of their feelings. I don’t like it that people often have to generate fake but socially acceptable explanations of their feelings, even with close people. At least, if you’re a very close person to this kid who acts as his guardian.
Several times you mention that it sounds like I was pressuring them, but this whole interaction was optional for both of us. I was offering to listen to them and try to help, but (they knew that) there wouldn’t be any consequences to telling me they didn’t want help beyond me just going back to the table.
It looks like you pressured the kid to stop crying and just hide their feelings (“I told them that I couldn’t understand and asked if they could speak normally”).
Would you feel differently if it was actually the case that I was bad at understanding kids who are currently crying?
it seems unlikely to me that the kid’s real reason for getting upset was that “they were worried the pasta was going to run out and they would still be hungry after dinner”
Agreed. This is why I wrote “I think this is very unlikely to be why they fell apart while at the table”
I infer that either you, in this situation, or the kid’s social environment, before this situation, pressured the kid into generating fake but socially acceptable explanations of their feelings.
I think this is a weird and complicated question. When you ask someone why they are upset, especially a kid, often you will get something that is not the real reason. People have limited introspection, especially with only a few years experience. So yes, I don’t like the thing where asking someone what’s wrong can decrease both their and your understanding of the actual problem.
On the other hand, when there is actually something important wrong, kids can often describe it well. If you look at the complaints adults give about the treatment they received as children, one of the biggest ones I run into is adults not listening and taking them seriously when they described problems.
So the approach I’ve generally taken is to talk to kids and help them solve the problems they say they have. This generally seems to work pretty well?
Would you feel differently if it was actually the case that I was bad at understanding kids who are currently crying?
Yes, of course.
So the approach I’ve generally taken is to talk to kids and help them solve the problems they say they have. This generally seems to work pretty well?
This sounds good! However, another thing that matters is whether you give off a “you’re only allowed to give respectable reasons for your feelings” vibe.
Btw, I wanna say that I enjoy reading your parenting posts a lot.
Would you feel differently if it was actually the case that I was bad at understanding kids who are currently crying?
Yes, of course.
Not clear to me why we should think of these as different. We care about the effect on the kid, right? Since they could just as easily ended up talking to someone who wasn’t able to understand them through their crying. Is it more that if I were unable to understand them in this way that would be not ideal, but there are just lots of things about the world that aren’t ideal?
another thing that matters is whether you give off a “you’re only allowed to give respectable reasons for your feelings” vibe
I try not to give off that vibe, but I think in many ways just talking pushes people in that direction? If you have feelings and don’t really know why you have them, and you are asked for a reason, sometimes you’re going to supply a reason that feels like a thing even if it isn’t the root cause.
Btw, I wanna say that I enjoy reading your parenting posts a lot.
Not clear to me why we should think of these as different. We care about the effect on the kid, right?
I suppose that when I think about the situation when you only pretend not to understand them, I imagine something like a strict dad telling his son “Pull yourself together, you wimp!”. While if you actually don’t understand them, then I imagine a cooperative conversation between the two of you, where you not understanding them while they are crying is an obstacle both of you would like to overcome.
That makes sense. It’s a lot more like the latter: to the extent I’m capable, I’m imitating someone who really can’t understand crying kids and is trying their best to be helpful and sympathetic given that limitation.
I don’t like this. It looks like you pressured the kid to stop crying and just hide their feelings (“I told them that I couldn’t understand and asked if they could speak normally”).
Also, it seems unlikely to me that the kid’s real reason for getting upset was that “they were worried the pasta was going to run out and they would still be hungry after dinner”. But still, I observe that this is what the kid said. From this I infer that either you, in this situation, or the kid’s social environment, before this situation, pressured the kid into generating fake but socially acceptable explanations of their feelings. I don’t like it that people often have to generate fake but socially acceptable explanations of their feelings, even with close people. At least, if you’re a very close person to this kid who acts as his guardian.
Several times you mention that it sounds like I was pressuring them, but this whole interaction was optional for both of us. I was offering to listen to them and try to help, but (they knew that) there wouldn’t be any consequences to telling me they didn’t want help beyond me just going back to the table.
Would you feel differently if it was actually the case that I was bad at understanding kids who are currently crying?
Agreed. This is why I wrote “I think this is very unlikely to be why they fell apart while at the table”
I think this is a weird and complicated question. When you ask someone why they are upset, especially a kid, often you will get something that is not the real reason. People have limited introspection, especially with only a few years experience. So yes, I don’t like the thing where asking someone what’s wrong can decrease both their and your understanding of the actual problem.
On the other hand, when there is actually something important wrong, kids can often describe it well. If you look at the complaints adults give about the treatment they received as children, one of the biggest ones I run into is adults not listening and taking them seriously when they described problems.
So the approach I’ve generally taken is to talk to kids and help them solve the problems they say they have. This generally seems to work pretty well?
Yes, of course.
This sounds good! However, another thing that matters is whether you give off a “you’re only allowed to give respectable reasons for your feelings” vibe.
Btw, I wanna say that I enjoy reading your parenting posts a lot.
Not clear to me why we should think of these as different. We care about the effect on the kid, right? Since they could just as easily ended up talking to someone who wasn’t able to understand them through their crying. Is it more that if I were unable to understand them in this way that would be not ideal, but there are just lots of things about the world that aren’t ideal?
I try not to give off that vibe, but I think in many ways just talking pushes people in that direction? If you have feelings and don’t really know why you have them, and you are asked for a reason, sometimes you’re going to supply a reason that feels like a thing even if it isn’t the root cause.
Thanks!
I suppose that when I think about the situation when you only pretend not to understand them, I imagine something like a strict dad telling his son “Pull yourself together, you wimp!”. While if you actually don’t understand them, then I imagine a cooperative conversation between the two of you, where you not understanding them while they are crying is an obstacle both of you would like to overcome.
That makes sense. It’s a lot more like the latter: to the extent I’m capable, I’m imitating someone who really can’t understand crying kids and is trying their best to be helpful and sympathetic given that limitation.
I am glad to hear that.