I think the overwhelming majority of people in the US who are ‘working 60-hour weeks, at jobs where they have to smile and bear it when their bosses abuse them’ are also consuming large amounts of luxuries, and I think it’s reasonable to conceptualize this as ‘they are working longer hours than they have to in order to consume lots of luxuries’.
May I ask you two questions?
Can you please list several things that you consider luxuries and which you believe these “poor” people spend a lot of money on?
Aphyer was discussing “working 60-hour weeks, at jobs where they have to smile and bear it when their bosses abuse them”, not specifically “poor” people. My experience of people working such hours, even on a low wage, is that they are proud of their work ethic and their ability to provide and that because of their hard work they have nice things and a path to retirement. They don’t consider themselves poor—they are working hard precisely to not be poor. As a concrete example, people in the armed forces have to smile and bear it when their bosses send them into war zones, never mind lower level abuse like being yelled at and worked past the point of exhaustion and following deliberately stupid orders.
That said, your question prompted me to get some statistics regarding the consumption patterns of low income households. I found the US BLS expenditure by income decile, and looked at the lowest decile.
This is emphatically not the same thing as either “poor” or “working 60-hour weeks”. People in this decile are not employed for 60hrs/week, because 60hrs/week for 40 weeks at federal minimum wage is $17,400 and puts someone in the second decile for income. Most of these people are retired or unemployed and spending down savings, which is why mean expenditure is $31,000/year vs mean income of $10,000/year. I welcome better data, I could not find it.
Those caveats aside, the bottom decile spent, on average (mean):
0.4% on sugar/sweets, $116/yr
0.8% on alcohol, $236/yr.
4.7% on food away from home, $1,458/yr
3.8% on entertainment, $1,168/yr
1.2% on nicotine, $383/yr
We’re looking at ~10% spending on these categories. From experience and reading I expect some fraction of spending in other categories to be “luxury” in the sense of not being strictly required, perhaps ~10%. This is in no way a criticism. Small luxuries are cheap and worth it. Few people would agree to work ~20% fewer hours if it meant living in abject poverty.
I’m curious what answer you would give to your own questions.
When I made $1000 a month at my first job, I didn’t buy new clothes for a year, had to ration my heating, and only ate out a few times a week. My main luxury expenses were a gym membership and heating the entire apartment on weekends.
Honestly, anything that’s not rice, chicken, cabbage, or rent is a luxury. Candy is a luxury. Takeout is a luxury. Going out for social events is a luxury. Romantic relationships and children are luxuries. I don’t think it’s impossible for Americans to be working 60 hours a week and consume no luxuries, but it’s probably very difficult.
May I ask you two questions?
Can you please list several things that you consider luxuries and which you believe these “poor” people spend a lot of money on?
What evidence (and how much) do you base this on?
Aphyer was discussing “working 60-hour weeks, at jobs where they have to smile and bear it when their bosses abuse them”, not specifically “poor” people. My experience of people working such hours, even on a low wage, is that they are proud of their work ethic and their ability to provide and that because of their hard work they have nice things and a path to retirement. They don’t consider themselves poor—they are working hard precisely to not be poor. As a concrete example, people in the armed forces have to smile and bear it when their bosses send them into war zones, never mind lower level abuse like being yelled at and worked past the point of exhaustion and following deliberately stupid orders.
That said, your question prompted me to get some statistics regarding the consumption patterns of low income households. I found the US BLS expenditure by income decile, and looked at the lowest decile.
This is emphatically not the same thing as either “poor” or “working 60-hour weeks”. People in this decile are not employed for 60hrs/week, because 60hrs/week for 40 weeks at federal minimum wage is $17,400 and puts someone in the second decile for income. Most of these people are retired or unemployed and spending down savings, which is why mean expenditure is $31,000/year vs mean income of $10,000/year. I welcome better data, I could not find it.
Those caveats aside, the bottom decile spent, on average (mean):
0.4% on sugar/sweets, $116/yr
0.8% on alcohol, $236/yr.
4.7% on food away from home, $1,458/yr
3.8% on entertainment, $1,168/yr
1.2% on nicotine, $383/yr
We’re looking at ~10% spending on these categories. From experience and reading I expect some fraction of spending in other categories to be “luxury” in the sense of not being strictly required, perhaps ~10%. This is in no way a criticism. Small luxuries are cheap and worth it. Few people would agree to work ~20% fewer hours if it meant living in abject poverty.
I’m curious what answer you would give to your own questions.
When I made $1000 a month at my first job, I didn’t buy new clothes for a year, had to ration my heating, and only ate out a few times a week. My main luxury expenses were a gym membership and heating the entire apartment on weekends.
Honestly, anything that’s not rice, chicken, cabbage, or rent is a luxury. Candy is a luxury. Takeout is a luxury. Going out for social events is a luxury. Romantic relationships and children are luxuries. I don’t think it’s impossible for Americans to be working 60 hours a week and consume no luxuries, but it’s probably very difficult.