I must say I feel grateful seeing the moderator’s quest towards improving things, especially through dialogue and transparency. It is engaging, and it makes it more clear what LW is, and what I would have to do to contribute. Thanks a lot for working on this and doing the internal as well as external work needed to jump over the hidden iceberg. Massive thumbs up.
I also wanted to give my reflections and thoughts on the post.
From my own experience, getting down-karmaed and also critical feedback on my first posts, was a jarring experience. I have since understood that my posts weren’t up to par, and I am working to improve, but I still believe I would have, with some effort, have improved and been able to contribute much more if given a hand and some friendly advice. I would therefore decidedly prefer a clear rejection instead over a death by a thousand cuts. (or as one Norwegian king supposedly said: Kill me, my liege, but not with grout. (grøt))
From my perspective as a new, but sincere person, I would have loved if my posts simply got rejected, and landed somewhere where people could, if they so desired, give me that friendly hand, some advice and a welcome.
Therefore, from the options above, I strongly prefer more moderation before things are posted. Not only for the betterment of signal-to-noise, but as a safeguard that protects new users from the potentially corroding touch of down-karma and negative feedback. I would also prefer if posts ending up in the rejection pile weren’t also subjected to additional ‘punishment’ by getting downvoted and critiqued. The way it stands now, posts can turn into porcupines, and that is really not a healthy look. You have already mentioned great ideas, like having a 101-zone to send people that are new. And with regard to posts, writing ‘good enough’ is hard, but reading the posts of others is a start.
A spur of the moment might be to add a simple icon on rejected posts that you believe could improve from constructive feedback. I mean, wouldn’t it be great if posts that landed in the rejected folder, got constructive feedback, and a couple of weeks later landed on the front page?
Acknowledging the importance of Comments: In Killing Socrates, my view on it is that even though moderating posts is very important, I see more how the commenting-culture and skill could improve. In my comment here on that post, I contrast two comments, and how they get opposing voting ‘scores’, which seems odd considering the guidelines.
You can see a lot of good posts on the front page, but there is no ‘good comments’ front-page. I see the post by Duncan_Sabien as exemplifying the importance of acknowledging/taking seriously the mutual dependent relationship between builders and commentors, that both of them are, in essence, builders. From that point of view, well-written, acknowledging the author, gives good constructive feedback and/or colorful, fun, empathic and compassionate etc. comments, would benefit from receiving the same scrutiny as posts, but also to be highlighted. The goal isn’t to have every comment be stellar or even the same visibility as posts, but to see these as two sides of the same coin.
When I studied Social Work, I also started to notice the lesser value that is put on inner growth, soft skills and things like culture. Even though a big reason people quit their jobs, get sick and/or underperform, isn’t because they have little pay, do not like their work or are not appreciated in society—it is often related to the climate where they work. Especially, how their superiors are acting, has far-reaching consequences.
Comments are, in my opinion, the continuation of posts. If they are better than the post, they elevate it, if they are worse, they diminish its worth, and if they are at the same level, they preserve and uphold it. The same goes for good discussions in the comment-section. Good exchanges are a goal in and of themselves, and more so when they are happening in the vicinity of important posts.
I hope this is a somewhat useful comment, and I want to repeat that I appreciate your effort and the process you are making in steering LW clear of a potential iceberg. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Hello Ruby, moderators and all,
I must say I feel grateful seeing the moderator’s quest towards improving things, especially through dialogue and transparency. It is engaging, and it makes it more clear what LW is, and what I would have to do to contribute. Thanks a lot for working on this and doing the internal as well as external work needed to jump over the hidden iceberg. Massive thumbs up.
I also wanted to give my reflections and thoughts on the post.
From my own experience, getting down-karmaed and also critical feedback on my first posts, was a jarring experience. I have since understood that my posts weren’t up to par, and I am working to improve, but I still believe I would have, with some effort, have improved and been able to contribute much more if given a hand and some friendly advice. I would therefore decidedly prefer a clear rejection instead over a death by a thousand cuts. (or as one Norwegian king supposedly said: Kill me, my liege, but not with grout. (grøt))
From my perspective as a new, but sincere person, I would have loved if my posts simply got rejected, and landed somewhere where people could, if they so desired, give me that friendly hand, some advice and a welcome.
Therefore, from the options above, I strongly prefer more moderation before things are posted. Not only for the betterment of signal-to-noise, but as a safeguard that protects new users from the potentially corroding touch of down-karma and negative feedback.
I would also prefer if posts ending up in the rejection pile weren’t also subjected to additional ‘punishment’ by getting downvoted and critiqued. The way it stands now, posts can turn into porcupines, and that is really not a healthy look. You have already mentioned great ideas, like having a 101-zone to send people that are new. And with regard to posts, writing ‘good enough’ is hard, but reading the posts of others is a start.
A spur of the moment might be to add a simple icon on rejected posts that you believe could improve from constructive feedback. I mean, wouldn’t it be great if posts that landed in the rejected folder, got constructive feedback, and a couple of weeks later landed on the front page?
Acknowledging the importance of Comments:
In Killing Socrates, my view on it is that even though moderating posts is very important, I see more how the commenting-culture and skill could improve. In my comment here on that post, I contrast two comments, and how they get opposing voting ‘scores’, which seems odd considering the guidelines.
You can see a lot of good posts on the front page, but there is no ‘good comments’ front-page. I see the post by Duncan_Sabien as exemplifying the importance of acknowledging/taking seriously the mutual dependent relationship between builders and commentors, that both of them are, in essence, builders. From that point of view, well-written, acknowledging the author, gives good constructive feedback and/or colorful, fun, empathic and compassionate etc. comments, would benefit from receiving the same scrutiny as posts, but also to be highlighted. The goal isn’t to have every comment be stellar or even the same visibility as posts, but to see these as two sides of the same coin.
When I studied Social Work, I also started to notice the lesser value that is put on inner growth, soft skills and things like culture. Even though a big reason people quit their jobs, get sick and/or underperform, isn’t because they have little pay, do not like their work or are not appreciated in society—it is often related to the climate where they work. Especially, how their superiors are acting, has far-reaching consequences.
Comments are, in my opinion, the continuation of posts. If they are better than the post, they elevate it, if they are worse, they diminish its worth, and if they are at the same level, they preserve and uphold it. The same goes for good discussions in the comment-section. Good exchanges are a goal in and of themselves, and more so when they are happening in the vicinity of important posts.
I hope this is a somewhat useful comment, and I want to repeat that I appreciate your effort and the process you are making in steering LW clear of a potential iceberg. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Kindly,
Caerulea-Lawrence
I super appreciate this in-depth sharing of your experience and thoughts.
I’m curious to hear from other newish users about whether they’d have preferred “rejection” vs “approval-but-downvoting/comments.”