Honestly the idea of trying to activate hornybrain and suppress ladybrain feels a tad manipulative or ethically dubious to me
I feel Aella is just describing something that regular guys who are successful with women already intuitively/subconsciously understand. Why is us autists trying to build models to replicate what other people are already doing suddenly unethical?
The same line of argument can probably be applied to the OP to some extent.
This is a general pattern I notice, where as soon as someone finds out that you have a more explicit model of a social situation than most people, you are suddenly tagged as manipulative. Even though you are doing the same things for the same reason as other people, they are just doing it subconsciously.
I feel Aella is just describing something that regular guys who are successful with women already intuitively/subconsciously understand. Why is us autists trying to build models to replicate what other people are already doing suddenly unethical?
I don’t have an opinion on the object level, but it seems like the obvious response is “it’s unethical when people do it naturally, and also unethical when the autists do it systematically (but also, doing it systematically draws attention to it, which makes it seem worse).”
I think the line between what’s ethical and unethical in social interactions is really blurry.
Just talking to a friend truthfully about something object level with no hidden intentions or hidden signals seem straightforwardly fine.
The manipulative boyfriend gaslighting her girlfriend and isolating her socially from all other people seems clearly unethical, even if he is doing it subconsciously.
But is e.g. flirting unethical in general? You are sending a bunch of covert/deniable signals, and are trying to manipulate the other person into having sex with you. The object level conversation matters very little to you, it’s all about the verbal and non-verbal subtext. Sounds quite manipulative to me...
In this sense you would probably be treading on very thin ice if you tried to apply John’s model. How much is too much without explicit verbal consent? Can you interpret a verbal “no” differently based on whether it sounds playful? If you apply the model fully, how do you avoid accidentally raping someone? (There are a bunch stories of women getting raped without every saying “no” because they were afraid.)
I feel Aella is just describing something that regular guys who are successful with women already intuitively/subconsciously understand. Why is us autists trying to build models to replicate what other people are already doing suddenly unethical?
The same line of argument can probably be applied to the OP to some extent.
This is a general pattern I notice, where as soon as someone finds out that you have a more explicit model of a social situation than most people, you are suddenly tagged as manipulative. Even though you are doing the same things for the same reason as other people, they are just doing it subconsciously.
I don’t have an opinion on the object level, but it seems like the obvious response is “it’s unethical when people do it naturally, and also unethical when the autists do it systematically (but also, doing it systematically draws attention to it, which makes it seem worse).”
I think the line between what’s ethical and unethical in social interactions is really blurry.
Just talking to a friend truthfully about something object level with no hidden intentions or hidden signals seem straightforwardly fine.
The manipulative boyfriend gaslighting her girlfriend and isolating her socially from all other people seems clearly unethical, even if he is doing it subconsciously.
But is e.g. flirting unethical in general? You are sending a bunch of covert/deniable signals, and are trying to manipulate the other person into having sex with you. The object level conversation matters very little to you, it’s all about the verbal and non-verbal subtext. Sounds quite manipulative to me...
In this sense you would probably be treading on very thin ice if you tried to apply John’s model. How much is too much without explicit verbal consent? Can you interpret a verbal “no” differently based on whether it sounds playful? If you apply the model fully, how do you avoid accidentally raping someone? (There are a bunch stories of women getting raped without every saying “no” because they were afraid.)