Interestingly, my biggest gripe is with the last stanza. To put it bluntly, I’d like it a lot more if it was just “Long ago/And ever so far away”. Linking to the cached concept “Beyond the Reach of God” destroys some of the beauty of the finale. If you still want to include the concept, I think it would fit better towards the beginning of the second speaker’s final reply, probably around the 5th or 6th stanza of it.
I will also perform a test run; when I’m done, I’ll edit this comment to report how long it took.
ETA: Total time, 7:57. (I read it somewhat slowly for dramatic emphasis.) Some thoughts while reading:
The first half contains phrases that sound a little too technical for poetry, e.g. “We argue, linguistically/about policy in adaptive tribal contexts. Then again, this contrast may be strengthening the awesomeness of the ending, I’m not sure.
If I were listening and I didn’t have the words in front of me with the different speakers’ parts distinguished by bold/non-bold text, I don’t think I’d be able to tell who is saying what. I tried varying my tone of voice to indicate this, but in some parts—especially the part about Gandhi—it might not be clear.
As I alluded to above, the last part is really, really awesome. The Gift We Give To Tomorrow is one of my favorite posts in terms of writing, and you definitely preserved the impact of its conclusion. Again, the only thing I would change is the last line.
I do actually need people physically there—this is for a small gathering of friends. However, when we’re done I intend to post about how it went and other people may feel motivated to try similar things.
I must confess, part of the reason I put it there is because I didn’t actually like the repetition of “ever so long ago.”
But I am not certain that I like “Beyond the Reach of God there” either. I put in there in the opening thread so that I could get a genuine reaction to it, but I’m not too attached to it. I think it can work, but not unless I can find a way to work in the Shadowy figure section, so it doesn’t come so out of nowhere.
Instead of Eliezer’s original “Long ago, and far away, ever so long ago” (which I agree is repetitive), what about just “Far away/And ever so long ago” for that stanza?
There’s probably a way to work it in using only a few lines, you don’t need the whole Shadowy figure section. If you work in this part:
“Nice! Have you looked at this planet lately? We also bear all those other emotions that evolved, too—which would tell you very well that we evolved, should you begin to doubt it. Humans aren’t always nice.”
We’re one hell of a lot nicer than the process that produced us, which lets elephants starve to death when they run out of teeth, and doesn’t anesthetize a gazelle even as it lays dying and is of no further importance to evolution one way or the other. It doesn’t take much to be nicer than evolution. To have the theoretical capacity to make one single gesture of mercy, to feel a single twinge of empathy, is to be nicer than evolution. How did evolution, which is itself so uncaring, create minds on that qualitatively higher moral level than itself? How did evolution, which is so ugly, end up doing anything so beautiful?
Then you can probably fit Beyond the Reach of God in there somewhere.
One potential solution: shorten the part on tribal politics and put the above in instead—it’s more poetic and has less of a technical style.
I included something about the God-figure where it used to say “Unless you want to say ‘Magic’”. I don’t think it quite works—it ends on a question that isn’t adequately resolved before moving on.
Actually, I think it does work, especially if you are presenting this to people who are somewhat familiar with LessWrong ideas. Given that this is poetry, I’m not sure that a fully rigorous reply is even necessary.
Interestingly, my biggest gripe is with the last stanza. To put it bluntly, I’d like it a lot more if it was just “Long ago/And ever so far away”. Linking to the cached concept “Beyond the Reach of God” destroys some of the beauty of the finale. If you still want to include the concept, I think it would fit better towards the beginning of the second speaker’s final reply, probably around the 5th or 6th stanza of it.
I will also perform a test run; when I’m done, I’ll edit this comment to report how long it took.
ETA: Total time, 7:57. (I read it somewhat slowly for dramatic emphasis.) Some thoughts while reading:
The first half contains phrases that sound a little too technical for poetry, e.g. “We argue, linguistically/about policy in adaptive tribal contexts. Then again, this contrast may be strengthening the awesomeness of the ending, I’m not sure.
If I were listening and I didn’t have the words in front of me with the different speakers’ parts distinguished by bold/non-bold text, I don’t think I’d be able to tell who is saying what. I tried varying my tone of voice to indicate this, but in some parts—especially the part about Gandhi—it might not be clear.
As I alluded to above, the last part is really, really awesome. The Gift We Give To Tomorrow is one of my favorite posts in terms of writing, and you definitely preserved the impact of its conclusion. Again, the only thing I would change is the last line.
Two notes:
1) I intend to have multiple people reading it (assuming I can find someone willing to help)
2) The intended audience will have the script in front of them (for unrelated reasons)
3) Thanks.
re: 1. Do you need people in person? If not, I can record and send you lines.
I do actually need people physically there—this is for a small gathering of friends. However, when we’re done I intend to post about how it went and other people may feel motivated to try similar things.
I must confess, part of the reason I put it there is because I didn’t actually like the repetition of “ever so long ago.”
But I am not certain that I like “Beyond the Reach of God there” either. I put in there in the opening thread so that I could get a genuine reaction to it, but I’m not too attached to it. I think it can work, but not unless I can find a way to work in the Shadowy figure section, so it doesn’t come so out of nowhere.
Instead of Eliezer’s original “Long ago, and far away, ever so long ago” (which I agree is repetitive), what about just “Far away/And ever so long ago” for that stanza?
There’s probably a way to work it in using only a few lines, you don’t need the whole Shadowy figure section. If you work in this part:
Then you can probably fit Beyond the Reach of God in there somewhere.
One potential solution: shorten the part on tribal politics and put the above in instead—it’s more poetic and has less of a technical style.
I included something about the God-figure where it used to say “Unless you want to say ‘Magic’”. I don’t think it quite works—it ends on a question that isn’t adequately resolved before moving on.
Let me know what you think.
Actually, I think it does work, especially if you are presenting this to people who are somewhat familiar with LessWrong ideas. Given that this is poetry, I’m not sure that a fully rigorous reply is even necessary.