I see. I think we are seeing things from slightly different perspectives here. I’ve always engaged with NVC as a method of personal communication, embedded in a broader world that is basically unaware of the structure of the NVC frame. I haven’t been in environments that seem to insist that an NVC frame is used, but would probably have a very bad reaction to it, for the reasons you outlined in the comment.
So, I’m going to say this because it might be counterintuitive: I don’t see a contradiction between my article and these comments here.
All the pitfalls of humanity (Goodharting, cognitive blindspots, status games, ulterior motives, etc.) can come alive in Circling. They are present because the ingredients you start with in a circle are humans. So all the human errors totally play out. They’re baked into the final pie.
If you prefer to only put in totally trusted ingredients, that makes sense to me. If you prefer not to put things at risk you don’t want to risk, that makes sense to me, and I endorse that behavior.
Circling isn’t “separate” from the real world. It tries to be a microcosm of the real world, with a few notable tweaks, such as: You are encouraged to be more mindful of the present moment. There is also a trend towards making things “object” that were “subject.” (I.e. revealing the water that you’ve been swimming in, unawares)
But, humans being humans, we do not always notice. We do not always see the patterns we are stuck in / re-enacting. And most of us are not trustworthy. Thus there is always risk.
Like in real life, it is up to you which risks you want to take on.
I will try to be as upfront as possible about the risks as I see them. And yeah, I agree all the risks you named in the comment above (starting with “losing self-image and identity”) are included.
I’m engaging in the risks personally for a number of reasons. One of them is that these risks all exist in the real world, and I’d like to learn to navigate them in real life. Another is that I have reason to believe I have an appropriate skill set that helps.
I have, and have talked with others who have encountered weaponized NVC and it is indeed super horrible. People get gaslighted, having their own emotional needs used to enforce ideological consistent behavior.
I’d put the disclaimer ‘Don’t go around handing the keys to your soul to people who don’t give a shit about you. Self identified ‘utilitarians’ might not give a shit about you, so be careful.′
It’s somewhat broader than that. It’s not necessary for the environment to insist on NVC, as long as it treats NVC as high-status and… I’m going to say “aspirationally normative” and hope that makes sense. See Val’s comment here. That is, from my standpoint, an obvious social attack, enabled by NVC being, not necessarily normative, but treated as aligned with a general goal. As long as I accept the framing that NVC is good, I have no recourse but to take the status hit and accept the implicit premise that I need to demonstrate I’m not morally/epistemically/socially inferior.
I do believe that is possible to use NVC ethically. (It is also probably possible to Circle ethically.) But Hagbard’s Law still applies; communication is only possible between equals, whether it’s ostensibly nonviolent or not. If there is a power struggle in progress, all signals are distorted; all utterances are going to be received as moves in the power game first, communication second.
I see. I think we are seeing things from slightly different perspectives here. I’ve always engaged with NVC as a method of personal communication, embedded in a broader world that is basically unaware of the structure of the NVC frame. I haven’t been in environments that seem to insist that an NVC frame is used, but would probably have a very bad reaction to it, for the reasons you outlined in the comment.
So, I’m going to say this because it might be counterintuitive: I don’t see a contradiction between my article and these comments here.
All the pitfalls of humanity (Goodharting, cognitive blindspots, status games, ulterior motives, etc.) can come alive in Circling. They are present because the ingredients you start with in a circle are humans. So all the human errors totally play out. They’re baked into the final pie.
If you prefer to only put in totally trusted ingredients, that makes sense to me. If you prefer not to put things at risk you don’t want to risk, that makes sense to me, and I endorse that behavior.
Circling isn’t “separate” from the real world. It tries to be a microcosm of the real world, with a few notable tweaks, such as: You are encouraged to be more mindful of the present moment. There is also a trend towards making things “object” that were “subject.” (I.e. revealing the water that you’ve been swimming in, unawares)
But, humans being humans, we do not always notice. We do not always see the patterns we are stuck in / re-enacting. And most of us are not trustworthy. Thus there is always risk.
Like in real life, it is up to you which risks you want to take on.
I will try to be as upfront as possible about the risks as I see them. And yeah, I agree all the risks you named in the comment above (starting with “losing self-image and identity”) are included.
I’m engaging in the risks personally for a number of reasons. One of them is that these risks all exist in the real world, and I’d like to learn to navigate them in real life. Another is that I have reason to believe I have an appropriate skill set that helps.
I have, and have talked with others who have encountered weaponized NVC and it is indeed super horrible. People get gaslighted, having their own emotional needs used to enforce ideological consistent behavior.
I’d put the disclaimer ‘Don’t go around handing the keys to your soul to people who don’t give a shit about you. Self identified ‘utilitarians’ might not give a shit about you, so be careful.′
It’s somewhat broader than that. It’s not necessary for the environment to insist on NVC, as long as it treats NVC as high-status and… I’m going to say “aspirationally normative” and hope that makes sense. See Val’s comment here. That is, from my standpoint, an obvious social attack, enabled by NVC being, not necessarily normative, but treated as aligned with a general goal. As long as I accept the framing that NVC is good, I have no recourse but to take the status hit and accept the implicit premise that I need to demonstrate I’m not morally/epistemically/socially inferior.
I do believe that is possible to use NVC ethically. (It is also probably possible to Circle ethically.) But Hagbard’s Law still applies; communication is only possible between equals, whether it’s ostensibly nonviolent or not. If there is a power struggle in progress, all signals are distorted; all utterances are going to be received as moves in the power game first, communication second.