This is great! I particularly like the bit about superficially adopting one set of norms without realizing that you are still running with a different set of assumptions; it’s a thing that seems to pop up in lots of different contexts. E.g. running with the assumption that you always need to look like a fast learner, and then trying to adopt norms of behaviors that look less like this, in order to demonstrate how fast you learned that this is bad. Some Christians also talk about how some seemingly humble behaviors are actually manifesting pride over how humble you are.
Another example that I’ve heard is that of stereotypical hippie communes that decided to found themselves on principles of free love and communal property, without realizing how many monogamous and personal owenership -type assumptions their subconscious was actually still operating on.
But in practice, most people who think they’re “doing Tell Culture” have been holding assumptions that look much more like Ask Culture.
This seems very plausible to me, but since I have not been exposed to a lot of Tell Culture “in the wild”, a concrete example would be useful.
I don’t know that I’ve run into this lately, but I think I’ve also selected on having friends who are generally considerate of each other. My local culture is fairly reveal-like, but has a fair amount of effort put into things like “here’s me saying what’s important to me, but I want to be clear this is not an obligation on you.” (We keep saying “not an obligation” even though it’s generally well understood, and I think that’s a good equilibrium because it prevents things from accidentally drifting into the Tell Culture failure modes)
This is great! I particularly like the bit about superficially adopting one set of norms without realizing that you are still running with a different set of assumptions; it’s a thing that seems to pop up in lots of different contexts. E.g. running with the assumption that you always need to look like a fast learner, and then trying to adopt norms of behaviors that look less like this, in order to demonstrate how fast you learned that this is bad. Some Christians also talk about how some seemingly humble behaviors are actually manifesting pride over how humble you are.
Another example that I’ve heard is that of stereotypical hippie communes that decided to found themselves on principles of free love and communal property, without realizing how many monogamous and personal owenership -type assumptions their subconscious was actually still operating on.
This seems very plausible to me, but since I have not been exposed to a lot of Tell Culture “in the wild”, a concrete example would be useful.
Others are welcome to offer concrete examples! I was mostly hearing about this second hand from Bay Area rationalists myself :P
I don’t know that I’ve run into this lately, but I think I’ve also selected on having friends who are generally considerate of each other. My local culture is fairly reveal-like, but has a fair amount of effort put into things like “here’s me saying what’s important to me, but I want to be clear this is not an obligation on you.” (We keep saying “not an obligation” even though it’s generally well understood, and I think that’s a good equilibrium because it prevents things from accidentally drifting into the Tell Culture failure modes)