On #3, many cultures have sayings and aphorisms that share the idea that people who do not drink are not as trustworthy in various contexts.
At the very least, refusing to drink can be seen as an attempt to empower yourself—let other people get stupider and more irrational (drunk) while remaining in full possession of your own mental powers. I recall at least one PUA page which described how to get the bartender to serve you watered down drinks (or water period) while your female targets get the full-strength alcohol.
I feel obligated to note that were I to find out that a man was trying to use trick on me, I would file charges for attempted rape. And it would hold up in court in my jurisdiction.
Surely the tactic as far as it’s described above is not (yet) any such thing. He could be trying to get you drunk so he can sell you an encyclopedia set, for all you know.
When the situation gets out of the grey area that’s just regular old sexual interference/assault. Attempted rape means nothing at all actually happened, which is why it is not often successfully convicted. But if you stood up in a court of law in my area and said, “My Lord, I was trying to sell her an encyclopedia set,” the judge would say, “Sure, and I was born yesterday.”
I should clarify that when I said it would hold up in court I meant that the charge would be valid. Given the number of committed rapes that are successfully convicted (about 1 in 16), I would have to have pretty solid evidence of the guy’s intent in order to have him convicted. But by the time I got the case to court, the guy’s reputation could be fairly effectively smeared. Which is why it’s important that people know that in many places having sex with drunk people is legally rape, and they should find out which places those are before they follow that advice.
Given the number of committed rapes that are successfully convicted (about 1 in 16)
Citation?
Aren’t those the odds that assumes that whenever a rape is reported and no one goes to jail, this means a rapist wasn’t successfully convicted and punished for his crime? Meaning that whenever someone is suspected of a rape they should have been found guilty. Kinda at odds with not just having a good map of reality but, the foundation of most modern Western legal systems (actually it dosen’t even work with guilty until proven innocent which is another common way things can be set up).
A casual google seems to indicate that this is indeed so
I feel obligated to note that were I to find out that a man was trying to use trick on me, I would file charges for attempted rape. And it would hold up in court in my jurisdiction.
Is it legal to bet on the outcome of a legal proceeding? If so, I would bet against this holding up in court. Not personally drinking full strength alcohol is not a crime.
Getting a person drunk in order to have sex with them is a crime in my jurisdiction because drunk people are not legally able to consent (“I was drunk too” is not a valid defense, either, fyi). If I could make the case that the person in question were plying me with alcohol in order to have sex with me that would be textbook attempted rape. It’s a big “if”, making the case, because the case is hypothetical and so is the evidence. But if the hypothetical PUA in question attempted to give me the impression that he was drinking as well while arranging with the bartender to maintain his mental faculties, that would be quite incriminating, and would show pre-meditation.
In any case it’s a good idea for potential ‘pick up artists’ to know that in many areas having sex with drunk people in rape, and they should maybe just work on improving their ability to gauge which people would be likely to consent to having sex with them while they are still in possession of their faculty to consent.
(And no, in my jurisdiction it is not legal to bet on the outcome of a legal proceeding, but it is not illegal to suggest it, so we’ll let it slide.)
At the very least, refusing to drink can be seen as an attempt to empower yourself—let other people get stupider and more irrational (drunk) while remaining in full possession of your own mental powers. I recall at least one PUA page which described how to get the bartender to serve you watered down drinks (or water period) while your female targets get the full-strength alcohol.
I feel obligated to note that were I to find out that a man was trying to use trick on me, I would file charges for attempted rape. And it would hold up in court in my jurisdiction.
Surely the tactic as far as it’s described above is not (yet) any such thing. He could be trying to get you drunk so he can sell you an encyclopedia set, for all you know.
When the situation gets out of the grey area that’s just regular old sexual interference/assault. Attempted rape means nothing at all actually happened, which is why it is not often successfully convicted. But if you stood up in a court of law in my area and said, “My Lord, I was trying to sell her an encyclopedia set,” the judge would say, “Sure, and I was born yesterday.”
I should clarify that when I said it would hold up in court I meant that the charge would be valid. Given the number of committed rapes that are successfully convicted (about 1 in 16), I would have to have pretty solid evidence of the guy’s intent in order to have him convicted. But by the time I got the case to court, the guy’s reputation could be fairly effectively smeared. Which is why it’s important that people know that in many places having sex with drunk people is legally rape, and they should find out which places those are before they follow that advice.
Citation?
Aren’t those the odds that assumes that whenever a rape is reported and no one goes to jail, this means a rapist wasn’t successfully convicted and punished for his crime? Meaning that whenever someone is suspected of a rape they should have been found guilty. Kinda at odds with not just having a good map of reality but, the foundation of most modern Western legal systems (actually it dosen’t even work with guilty until proven innocent which is another common way things can be set up).
A casual google seems to indicate that this is indeed so
One of several sources:
Not all rapes that occurred are reported, not all that are reported occurred.
Which of these numbers do you think is larger, and why?
Is it legal to bet on the outcome of a legal proceeding? If so, I would bet against this holding up in court. Not personally drinking full strength alcohol is not a crime.
Getting a person drunk in order to have sex with them is a crime in my jurisdiction because drunk people are not legally able to consent (“I was drunk too” is not a valid defense, either, fyi). If I could make the case that the person in question were plying me with alcohol in order to have sex with me that would be textbook attempted rape. It’s a big “if”, making the case, because the case is hypothetical and so is the evidence. But if the hypothetical PUA in question attempted to give me the impression that he was drinking as well while arranging with the bartender to maintain his mental faculties, that would be quite incriminating, and would show pre-meditation.
In any case it’s a good idea for potential ‘pick up artists’ to know that in many areas having sex with drunk people in rape, and they should maybe just work on improving their ability to gauge which people would be likely to consent to having sex with them while they are still in possession of their faculty to consent.
(And no, in my jurisdiction it is not legal to bet on the outcome of a legal proceeding, but it is not illegal to suggest it, so we’ll let it slide.)
I agree for the U.S. But I don’t know her (or his) jurisdiction.