I think it’s good that this post was written, shared to LessWrong, and got a bunch of karma. And (though I haven’t fully re-read it) it seems like the author was careful to distinguish observation from inference and to include details in defense of Ziz when relevant. I appreciate that.
I don’t think it’s a good fit for the 2023 review. Unless Ziz gets back in the news, there’s not much reason for someone in 2025 or later to be reading this.
If I was going to recommend it, I think the reason would be some combination of
This is a good example of investigative journalism, and valuable to read as such.
It’s a good case study of a certain type of person that it’s important to remember exists.
But I don’t think it stands out as a case study (it’s not trying to answer questions like “how did this person become Ziz”), and I weakly guess it doesn’t stand out as investigative journalism either. E.g. when I’m thinking on these axes, TracingWoodgrains on David Gerard feels like the kind of thing I’d recommend above this.
Which, to be clear, not a slight on this post! I think it does what it wanted to do very well, and what it wants to do is valuable, it’s just not a kind of thing that I think the 2023 review is looking to reward.
“Unless Ziz gets back in the news, there’s not much reason for someone in 2025 or later to be reading this.” With the recent death of the zizian Ophelia (after shooting a border patrol agent) this post is, unfortunately, relevant again.
OK, my current evidence is that Jessica Taylor says on Twitter that she knew Ophelia, Ophelia was a Ziz fan, and Ophelia told Jessica that Ophelia was in contact with Somni and Emma prior to the landlord incident.
Teresa Youngblut, the other person with Ophelia at the shootout, is also known to be a Ziz fan (and in November filed a marriage application to @Audere, also a Ziz fan.) You can see most of this if you look through Jessica’s Twitter.
I consider myself a rationalist, but if I were going to recommend this post to anyone, it would be to show how dangerous fanaticism/sectarianism is—and this is not only about Ziz’s and Co. actions, also many comments here are kind of scary. It shows how single-thinking and going to the extreme about one’s convictions, even if one tries very hard to be correct, often goes extremely badly. We humans are dumb, so just don’t take anything too literally or too much to its extreme, take yourself and your thoughts with a bit of salt, be nuanced (at least nuancedly nuanced).
No wonder some people hate or are afraid of rationalist when they see stuff like this… and when they see that this is resurfaced after several years with no apparent reason.
I think it’s good that this post was written, shared to LessWrong, and got a bunch of karma. And (though I haven’t fully re-read it) it seems like the author was careful to distinguish observation from inference and to include details in defense of Ziz when relevant. I appreciate that.
I don’t think it’s a good fit for the 2023 review. Unless Ziz gets back in the news, there’s not much reason for someone in 2025 or later to be reading this.
If I was going to recommend it, I think the reason would be some combination of
This is a good example of investigative journalism, and valuable to read as such.
It’s a good case study of a certain type of person that it’s important to remember exists.
But I don’t think it stands out as a case study (it’s not trying to answer questions like “how did this person become Ziz”), and I weakly guess it doesn’t stand out as investigative journalism either. E.g. when I’m thinking on these axes, TracingWoodgrains on David Gerard feels like the kind of thing I’d recommend above this.
Which, to be clear, not a slight on this post! I think it does what it wanted to do very well, and what it wants to do is valuable, it’s just not a kind of thing that I think the 2023 review is looking to reward.
“Unless Ziz gets back in the news, there’s not much reason for someone in 2025 or later to be reading this.” With the recent death of the zizian Ophelia (after shooting a border patrol agent) this post is, unfortunately, relevant again.
FWIW I feel like Ophelia’s Zizian credentials haven’t been that well-established.
OK, my current evidence is that Jessica Taylor says on Twitter that she knew Ophelia, Ophelia was a Ziz fan, and Ophelia told Jessica that Ophelia was in contact with Somni and Emma prior to the landlord incident.
Teresa Youngblut, the other person with Ophelia at the shootout, is also known to be a Ziz fan (and in November filed a marriage application to @Audere, also a Ziz fan.) You can see most of this if you look through Jessica’s Twitter.
Agree.
I consider myself a rationalist, but if I were going to recommend this post to anyone, it would be to show how dangerous fanaticism/sectarianism is—and this is not only about Ziz’s and Co. actions, also many comments here are kind of scary. It shows how single-thinking and going to the extreme about one’s convictions, even if one tries very hard to be correct, often goes extremely badly. We humans are dumb, so just don’t take anything too literally or too much to its extreme, take yourself and your thoughts with a bit of salt, be nuanced (at least nuancedly nuanced).
No wonder some people hate or are afraid of rationalist when they see stuff like this… and when they see that this is resurfaced after several years with no apparent reason.