Yes, that does seem to be a risk. I would think that applying schelling fences to reinforce current values reduces the amount of expected drift in the future, and I’m unclear whether you are claiming that using Schelling fences will do the opposite, or claiming that they are imperfect.
I’d also like to better understand what specifically you think is making the error of making it difficult to re-align with current values, rather than reducing the degree of drift, and how it could be handled differently.
I would think that applying schelling fences to reinforce current values reduces the amount of expected drift in the future
It reinforces the position endorsed by current values, not the current values themselves. (I’m not saying this about Schelling fences in general, which have their uses, rather about leveraging of status quo and commitment norms via reliable application of simple rules, chosen to signal current (past, idealized) values.) This hurts people with future changed values without preventing the change in values.
what specifically you think is making the error of making it difficult to re-align with current values
The effect on prevention of change in values is negative only in the sense of opportunity cost and because of the possibility of confusing this activity for something useful, which inhibits seeking something actually useful. It’s analogous to the issues caused by homeopathy. (Though I’m skeptical about value drift being harmful for humans.)
I think it is an important fact about how humans work that reinforcing the schilling fences and following them does in fact reinforce the values involved, whereas ignoring the fences does weaken them. Virtues and habits are something you cultivate through repeated action. This isn’t simple signaling of values, it impacts those values for real.
I agree, it’s just not a primary thing that’s happening, the coercion of the discipline (conflict between values and behavior) is more prominent than reinforcement of values where the discipline becomes necessary (partially by definition, since if it works well, the discipline is not necessary after all). For this reason, it’s misleading to characterise the effect of this policy as reinforcement of current values, though that probably happens as well. Not sure how that’s balanced by rebellious urges.
(I disagree with my statements above in the thread in the context where preventing value drift is much more important than preventing suffering from coercion of behavior to unaligned values.)
Yes, that does seem to be a risk. I would think that applying schelling fences to reinforce current values reduces the amount of expected drift in the future, and I’m unclear whether you are claiming that using Schelling fences will do the opposite, or claiming that they are imperfect.
I’d also like to better understand what specifically you think is making the error of making it difficult to re-align with current values, rather than reducing the degree of drift, and how it could be handled differently.
It reinforces the position endorsed by current values, not the current values themselves. (I’m not saying this about Schelling fences in general, which have their uses, rather about leveraging of status quo and commitment norms via reliable application of simple rules, chosen to signal current (past, idealized) values.) This hurts people with future changed values without preventing the change in values.
The effect on prevention of change in values is negative only in the sense of opportunity cost and because of the possibility of confusing this activity for something useful, which inhibits seeking something actually useful. It’s analogous to the issues caused by homeopathy. (Though I’m skeptical about value drift being harmful for humans.)
I think it is an important fact about how humans work that reinforcing the schilling fences and following them does in fact reinforce the values involved, whereas ignoring the fences does weaken them. Virtues and habits are something you cultivate through repeated action. This isn’t simple signaling of values, it impacts those values for real.
I agree, it’s just not a primary thing that’s happening, the coercion of the discipline (conflict between values and behavior) is more prominent than reinforcement of values where the discipline becomes necessary (partially by definition, since if it works well, the discipline is not necessary after all). For this reason, it’s misleading to characterise the effect of this policy as reinforcement of current values, though that probably happens as well. Not sure how that’s balanced by rebellious urges.
(I disagree with my statements above in the thread in the context where preventing value drift is much more important than preventing suffering from coercion of behavior to unaligned values.)