Sour grapes are essential when they’re one shot opportunities that we missed (perfect world: first learn from any mistake, then emotionally salve w/ sour grapes).
They’re a detriment when the opportunity is ongoing and, fear of more possible failures considered, likely worth the effort.
Sour grapes are essential when they’re one shot opportunities that we missed (perfect world: first learn from any mistake, then emotionally salve w/ sour grapes).
Sour grapes are never essential. Not only are there better emotional salves it is healthier to just not take emotional damage from missed opportunities or mistakes in the first place. (This is a skill that can be developed.)
I take the “Meh, I’ve had worse” approach to deflecting emotional damage. I’m also partial to considering missed opportunities to be trivial additions to the enormous heap of missed opportunities before them.
No need for sour grapes here. In fact, let’s keep all grapes sweet and succulent just in case we get them later.
People certainly don’t need to make their emotional reactions rational if they don’t want to—but they can do so to some extent when it helps. This is the cornerstone of things like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and much of pjeby’s mind hacking.
It’s hard to describe without going into huge detail but something that works is embracing the frustration in the full degree rather than flinching away from it. Then you can release it. Then rinse and repeat. The emotional trigger is reduced as your mind begins to realise that it really isn’t as awful as you thought.
You can also harness the frustration into renewed motivation for reaching the generalised goal that hit a setback or localised failure. This is nearly (but not quite) the opposite of using the frustration to remove your desire for something.
I’ve also read about CBT and agree that it seems helpful. I took from it the idea that if you’re avoiding some activity that you think you would probably benefit from, look at the reasons you think it will be hard/painful/whatever, and you should not only think about and defuse them purely intellectually, but also through practice (starting w/ milder efforts) get your toes wet in that direction, comparing the actual results to your overblown negative expectations.
Also, in my experience, I’ve never been disappointed when I honestly describe some negative emotional reaction I’m already having, and look for some insight into why I’m having it. That is, I’m already feeling terrible, and so coming up with true-seeming stories explaining the feeling (and perhaps deciding that I’ve learned something, or have some plan for doing better in the future) is a mild relief.
Also, in my experience, I’ve never been disappointed when I honestly describe some negative emotional reaction I’m already having, and look for some insight into why I’m having it. That is, I’m already feeling terrible, and so coming up with true-seeming stories explaining the feeling (and perhaps deciding that I’ve learned something, or have some plan for doing better in the future) is a mild relief.
This reminds me of the popular “what is true is already so; owning up to it doesn’t make it worse”.
It’s hard to describe without going into huge detail but something that works is embracing the frustration in the full degree rather than flinching away from it. Then you can release it.
“I must not be frustrated. …. I will face my frustration, permit it to pass over me and through me …”
I honestly use the Litany Against Fear quite like this—for frustration, annoyance, pain, or anything else that I have to put up with for a while. The metaphor of passing over and through works well for me.
My twist on that is that I use ‘will’ instead of ‘must’. Similar to Jonathan I don’t think I need to alter my emotional responses and I reject such demands even from myself. “Will”, “want” and sometimes “am” all work better for me. (This can just mean leaving off the first sentence there.)
I won’t look for the study hyperlink, but I was also charmed by something showing that the self-question “will I X?” was interesting in that it actually movtivated people to do X (more so than something like “I must X”). That is, having a curious/wondering tone seemed helpful. I and the reporters of this result may be missing the actual cause, of course.
I’ve seen it, probably while reading through pjeby’s work. It’s one of favourite tactics. I don’t recall the name he gives it but that curious wondering tone seems to work wonders.
That makes sense to me. “Must” implies a moral code; if you decline to accept responsibility from any external moral code, you could interpret it as “must, according to rational methods of achieving my personal goals,” but there’s no advantage to that circuitous interpretation over the changes you suggest.
Sour grapes are essential when they’re one shot opportunities that we missed (perfect world: first learn from any mistake, then emotionally salve w/ sour grapes).
They’re a detriment when the opportunity is ongoing and, fear of more possible failures considered, likely worth the effort.
Sour grapes are never essential. Not only are there better emotional salves it is healthier to just not take emotional damage from missed opportunities or mistakes in the first place. (This is a skill that can be developed.)
I take the “Meh, I’ve had worse” approach to deflecting emotional damage. I’m also partial to considering missed opportunities to be trivial additions to the enormous heap of missed opportunities before them.
No need for sour grapes here. In fact, let’s keep all grapes sweet and succulent just in case we get them later.
Thanks, now I’m hungry.
Interesting. Can you be more specific?
I don’t feel like I can, or need to, make all of my emotional reactions rational. But if it’s easy, of course I prefer to be better integrated.
People certainly don’t need to make their emotional reactions rational if they don’t want to—but they can do so to some extent when it helps. This is the cornerstone of things like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and much of pjeby’s mind hacking.
It’s hard to describe without going into huge detail but something that works is embracing the frustration in the full degree rather than flinching away from it. Then you can release it. Then rinse and repeat. The emotional trigger is reduced as your mind begins to realise that it really isn’t as awful as you thought.
You can also harness the frustration into renewed motivation for reaching the generalised goal that hit a setback or localised failure. This is nearly (but not quite) the opposite of using the frustration to remove your desire for something.
I’ve also read about CBT and agree that it seems helpful. I took from it the idea that if you’re avoiding some activity that you think you would probably benefit from, look at the reasons you think it will be hard/painful/whatever, and you should not only think about and defuse them purely intellectually, but also through practice (starting w/ milder efforts) get your toes wet in that direction, comparing the actual results to your overblown negative expectations.
Also, in my experience, I’ve never been disappointed when I honestly describe some negative emotional reaction I’m already having, and look for some insight into why I’m having it. That is, I’m already feeling terrible, and so coming up with true-seeming stories explaining the feeling (and perhaps deciding that I’ve learned something, or have some plan for doing better in the future) is a mild relief.
This reminds me of the popular “what is true is already so; owning up to it doesn’t make it worse”.
Also, see today’s SMBC comic. His timing is incredible. :)
“I must not be frustrated. …. I will face my frustration, permit it to pass over me and through me …”
I honestly use the Litany Against Fear quite like this—for frustration, annoyance, pain, or anything else that I have to put up with for a while. The metaphor of passing over and through works well for me.
My twist on that is that I use ‘will’ instead of ‘must’. Similar to Jonathan I don’t think I need to alter my emotional responses and I reject such demands even from myself. “Will”, “want” and sometimes “am” all work better for me. (This can just mean leaving off the first sentence there.)
I won’t look for the study hyperlink, but I was also charmed by something showing that the self-question “will I X?” was interesting in that it actually movtivated people to do X (more so than something like “I must X”). That is, having a curious/wondering tone seemed helpful. I and the reporters of this result may be missing the actual cause, of course.
I’ve seen it, probably while reading through pjeby’s work. It’s one of favourite tactics. I don’t recall the name he gives it but that curious wondering tone seems to work wonders.
That makes sense to me. “Must” implies a moral code; if you decline to accept responsibility from any external moral code, you could interpret it as “must, according to rational methods of achieving my personal goals,” but there’s no advantage to that circuitous interpretation over the changes you suggest.
Exactly the reasoning I use.