I think a much better, more general principle is “you gain status among members of a group by making efforts which have no other point, because that shows you care enough about the group to be loyal and commit your own resources.” This is a large part, for example, of why fraternities haze people- anyone willing to go through the hazing must care a lot about getting into the fraternity.
“1. Standing up straight is low-status, because you’re obviously doing it to make an impression on others—there’s no first-order benefit to yourself.”
In general, making a conscious effort to do anything social is low-status, because it shows your unconscious systems are unskilled and inexperienced. So, consciously making an effort to stand up straight (if other people realize you’re doing it) is bad.
“2. Saying what’s on your mind is high-status, because you’re doing something pleasurable. This signal is most reliable when what you say doesn’t have any intellectual merit.”
Most people are, frankly, stupid and don’t give a damn about intellectual merit. The high-status things to say are those which match closely with what members of the group are expected to say, because saying those sorts of things shows that you have inside information, you’ve thought a lot about the group, etc. People are almost never expected to talk about things with intellectual merit, and so talking about things with intellectual merit is generally low-status, to my perpetual annoyance.
“3. Making an effort to have a pleasant conversation is low-status. It’s high-status to talk about what you care about.”
Again, the highest status thing to do is having a pleasant conversation without appearing to be exerting an effort to be pleasant.
“4. Wearing the most comfortable possible clothes is high-status, because you’re clearly benefiting yourself. (Dressing in fashionable clothes is also high-status, through a different inferential pathway.)”
The most important thing here, I think, is not comfort, or even fashion- it’s conformity. For instance, suppose you are hired at an investment bank, a company that cares a lot about status and appearance. There’s a very specific set of things you’re supposed to wear (http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-wardrobe-men/), and not wearing them (no matter what you are wearing) marks you as clueless and therefore low-status.
“6. Blowing your nose is high-status because it’s pleasurable and shows that you aren’t affected enough by others to stop.”
I think you’re confusing standard signaling and countersignaling a lot. Standard signaling is much more common than countersignaling, and countersignaling can only be done when you’re already established as a high status person.
“7. Asking for permission is low-status. Compare: recognizing that proceeding would be pleasurable, and believing that you are immune to any negative consequences.”
Agreed somewhat, but this is also a large blow to the status of the person whose permission you’re supposed to ask, who then may try to punish you. See: public school teachers.
“8. Showing off is low-status, because it reveals that the prospect of impressing your peers drives you to do things which aren’t first-order selfish. (Of course, the thing you are showing off might legitimately signal status.)”
The sorts of showing off that are done in such a way that it’s obvious that you know the rules about how to show off without lowering your status are high status. See, for instance, http://markbao.com/ .
I think a much better, more general principle is “you gain status among members of a group by making efforts which have no other point, because that shows you care enough about the group to be loyal and commit your own resources.” This is a large part, for example, of why fraternities haze people- anyone willing to go through the hazing must care a lot about getting into the fraternity.
“1. Standing up straight is low-status, because you’re obviously doing it to make an impression on others—there’s no first-order benefit to yourself.”
In general, making a conscious effort to do anything social is low-status, because it shows your unconscious systems are unskilled and inexperienced. So, consciously making an effort to stand up straight (if other people realize you’re doing it) is bad.
“2. Saying what’s on your mind is high-status, because you’re doing something pleasurable. This signal is most reliable when what you say doesn’t have any intellectual merit.”
Most people are, frankly, stupid and don’t give a damn about intellectual merit. The high-status things to say are those which match closely with what members of the group are expected to say, because saying those sorts of things shows that you have inside information, you’ve thought a lot about the group, etc. People are almost never expected to talk about things with intellectual merit, and so talking about things with intellectual merit is generally low-status, to my perpetual annoyance.
“3. Making an effort to have a pleasant conversation is low-status. It’s high-status to talk about what you care about.”
Again, the highest status thing to do is having a pleasant conversation without appearing to be exerting an effort to be pleasant.
“4. Wearing the most comfortable possible clothes is high-status, because you’re clearly benefiting yourself. (Dressing in fashionable clothes is also high-status, through a different inferential pathway.)”
The most important thing here, I think, is not comfort, or even fashion- it’s conformity. For instance, suppose you are hired at an investment bank, a company that cares a lot about status and appearance. There’s a very specific set of things you’re supposed to wear (http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-wardrobe-men/), and not wearing them (no matter what you are wearing) marks you as clueless and therefore low-status.
“6. Blowing your nose is high-status because it’s pleasurable and shows that you aren’t affected enough by others to stop.”
I think you’re confusing standard signaling and countersignaling a lot. Standard signaling is much more common than countersignaling, and countersignaling can only be done when you’re already established as a high status person.
“7. Asking for permission is low-status. Compare: recognizing that proceeding would be pleasurable, and believing that you are immune to any negative consequences.”
Agreed somewhat, but this is also a large blow to the status of the person whose permission you’re supposed to ask, who then may try to punish you. See: public school teachers.
“8. Showing off is low-status, because it reveals that the prospect of impressing your peers drives you to do things which aren’t first-order selfish. (Of course, the thing you are showing off might legitimately signal status.)”
The sorts of showing off that are done in such a way that it’s obvious that you know the rules about how to show off without lowering your status are high status. See, for instance, http://markbao.com/ .
Hi Tom. The convention for block quotes is to use markdown syntax. Put a “>” at the start of a quoted paragraph instead of surrounding it with ′ ” ’.
That’s Tom signalling that his status puts him above such niggling details. ;)
You are talking about a totally different component of status signalling. Selfishness is its own status-signalling component.
Tom McCabe said, but should have headlined:
It’s not entirely clear to me that you’re talking about game theory), but if you are, it sure sounds like countersignaling to me.
Great comment. Completely agreed.
Great comment, completely agreed.