First, I’d acknowledge the 13-year-old’s preference. Not wanting to do schoolwork is completely valid and not irrational. School often is boring, stressful, or feels pointless. Many adults would feel the same way if forced back into that environment. So I wouldn’t shame them for this preference or try to convince them they should enjoy homework.
Instead I might try to elicit their full model of what school is for, and what homework is for, and what happens if they just stop doing it. I’d listen carefully to understand their actual concerns and values. Maybe they feel like they’re missing out on pursuing their real interests. Maybe they’re overwhelmed by pressure to perform. Maybe they see successful people who didn’t follow traditional paths and wonder why they should. Or maybe they’d rather just play video games.
Once you understand their perspective, you might share some stories. Not manipulative ones, but truthful accounts of how different educational paths have played out for different people. Stories about those who dropped out and succeeded, but also stories about how that path actually looked day-to-day, including the challenges, or what they did instead of the “normal” path to success.
The key is approaching this with genuine curiosity about what they want their life to look like, and then collaboratively exploring whether completely stopping schoolwork gets them there. Maybe it does! Maybe you discover alternative educational approaches that align better with their values. Maybe you find ways to minimize the parts of school they hate while keeping doors open.
If you find yourself getting frustrated or pushy, that’s a sign you’ve slipped into trying to “win” rather than understand. You have something in mind that you’re worried about for them, that you think they aren’t taking seriously. That’s fair; they probably don’t have as full a model of the world or future as you do.
But it’s worth noting that a lot of people who think they know what the future has in store are often wrong. The truth is you don’t know for sure what’s better for your 13 year old; your guesses are more informed than theirs, but there’s always uncertainty. So you can do your best to educate and inform them, but first make them an active participant in that process, and stay open to the idea that they have good reasons for it.
If it really is just a case of wanting to play video games (or whatever) instead of doing homework, then the thing you’re trying to do, effectively, is teach them about short-term vs long-term tradeoffs. That’s hard, but not impossible, particularly for 13 year olds. It often requires helping them understand what the world is actually like for people unprepared for it (ideally not in a “scared straight” way), and requires helping them find something they can be excited about in the future, instead of just the present.
Seems important to note that homework is mostly (if not entirely) Bullshit. This is obvious to the 13 year old, and you will lose credibility by insisting that it is providing significant long-term value for them.
I also think it’s important to acknowledge that things are changing rapidly enough that your guesses about the future probably aren’t going to be that much better than theirs (unless you have the calibration record to flex with). They genuinely have a lot more information about what the local incentives are like now. What you do (likely) have an advantage in is the wisdom to know that this is worth thinking seriously about.
When I was in the position of said 13 year old (although I was actually 15), I was like “Long term? I’m tired of waiting for a long term that never seems to actually come, and according to you, after I’m done with school, all I have to look forward to is a 40 hour a week job that will leave me with even less time to do the things I actually want to do, such as play video games. So I’m going to just have fun now, while I still have the chance, and if everything falls apart on me someday, so be it. You haven’t actually offered me a better alternative.”
My father’s response was something like “Fine. We can’t make you do the work, but the law says that I can get in trouble if you don’t at least physically show up at the school and remain there during the school day, so I will use any method at my disposal, up to and including physical force, to achieve that. And we will also force you to see psychiatrists and other doctors to find out what is wrong with you.”
“You haven’t actually offered me a better alternative” sounds like a failure on your parents’ parts, or a failure of imagination on your 15-year-old-self’s part. Which happens fairly often, and is a separate thing about the preferences themselves being irrational. Many people would be happy with a life of leisure and no responsibilities, and the desire for that isn’t irrational at all. It’s important to be educated about the long-term consequences of it specifically because that’s what helps people feel motivated to do something more robust to their future self’s preferences.
I’d also note that “didn’t want to do schoolwork” is different from “didn’t want to go to school at all,” which yes has legal consequences that rather drastically changes the outcome.
The backstory here is that my high school changed its start time from 8:10 to 7:40 and I couldn’t cope with that—I was too tired to get up in the morning and trying to go to bed earlier simply resulted in lying in bed awake.
First, I’d acknowledge the 13-year-old’s preference. Not wanting to do schoolwork is completely valid and not irrational. School often is boring, stressful, or feels pointless. Many adults would feel the same way if forced back into that environment. So I wouldn’t shame them for this preference or try to convince them they should enjoy homework.
Instead I might try to elicit their full model of what school is for, and what homework is for, and what happens if they just stop doing it. I’d listen carefully to understand their actual concerns and values. Maybe they feel like they’re missing out on pursuing their real interests. Maybe they’re overwhelmed by pressure to perform. Maybe they see successful people who didn’t follow traditional paths and wonder why they should. Or maybe they’d rather just play video games.
Once you understand their perspective, you might share some stories. Not manipulative ones, but truthful accounts of how different educational paths have played out for different people. Stories about those who dropped out and succeeded, but also stories about how that path actually looked day-to-day, including the challenges, or what they did instead of the “normal” path to success.
The key is approaching this with genuine curiosity about what they want their life to look like, and then collaboratively exploring whether completely stopping schoolwork gets them there. Maybe it does! Maybe you discover alternative educational approaches that align better with their values. Maybe you find ways to minimize the parts of school they hate while keeping doors open.
If you find yourself getting frustrated or pushy, that’s a sign you’ve slipped into trying to “win” rather than understand. You have something in mind that you’re worried about for them, that you think they aren’t taking seriously. That’s fair; they probably don’t have as full a model of the world or future as you do.
But it’s worth noting that a lot of people who think they know what the future has in store are often wrong. The truth is you don’t know for sure what’s better for your 13 year old; your guesses are more informed than theirs, but there’s always uncertainty. So you can do your best to educate and inform them, but first make them an active participant in that process, and stay open to the idea that they have good reasons for it.
If it really is just a case of wanting to play video games (or whatever) instead of doing homework, then the thing you’re trying to do, effectively, is teach them about short-term vs long-term tradeoffs. That’s hard, but not impossible, particularly for 13 year olds. It often requires helping them understand what the world is actually like for people unprepared for it (ideally not in a “scared straight” way), and requires helping them find something they can be excited about in the future, instead of just the present.
Seems important to note that homework is mostly (if not entirely) Bullshit. This is obvious to the 13 year old, and you will lose credibility by insisting that it is providing significant long-term value for them.
I also think it’s important to acknowledge that things are changing rapidly enough that your guesses about the future probably aren’t going to be that much better than theirs (unless you have the calibration record to flex with). They genuinely have a lot more information about what the local incentives are like now. What you do (likely) have an advantage in is the wisdom to know that this is worth thinking seriously about.
Was this comment meant to be in reply to me, or the OP? (I agree with these points and think I covered them in my response.)
When I was in the position of said 13 year old (although I was actually 15), I was like “Long term? I’m tired of waiting for a long term that never seems to actually come, and according to you, after I’m done with school, all I have to look forward to is a 40 hour a week job that will leave me with even less time to do the things I actually want to do, such as play video games. So I’m going to just have fun now, while I still have the chance, and if everything falls apart on me someday, so be it. You haven’t actually offered me a better alternative.”
My father’s response was something like “Fine. We can’t make you do the work, but the law says that I can get in trouble if you don’t at least physically show up at the school and remain there during the school day, so I will use any method at my disposal, up to and including physical force, to achieve that. And we will also force you to see psychiatrists and other doctors to find out what is wrong with you.”
“You haven’t actually offered me a better alternative” sounds like a failure on your parents’ parts, or a failure of imagination on your 15-year-old-self’s part. Which happens fairly often, and is a separate thing about the preferences themselves being irrational. Many people would be happy with a life of leisure and no responsibilities, and the desire for that isn’t irrational at all. It’s important to be educated about the long-term consequences of it specifically because that’s what helps people feel motivated to do something more robust to their future self’s preferences.
I’d also note that “didn’t want to do schoolwork” is different from “didn’t want to go to school at all,” which yes has legal consequences that rather drastically changes the outcome.
The backstory here is that my high school changed its start time from 8:10 to 7:40 and I couldn’t cope with that—I was too tired to get up in the morning and trying to go to bed earlier simply resulted in lying in bed awake.