For that matter, Socrates (or more precisely Socrates-as-portrayed-by-Plato) seems to have had a bunch of positive ideas he was pushing, which were interesting whether or not correct, and wasn’t just a nitpicker, even if what got him executed was his nitpickery.
IIRC from the one relevant course I took over 15 years ago, that’s largely a difference between early Plato, reporting what Socrates did and said, and later Plato, using Socrates as a character/mouthpiece for his own ideas.
(To clarify—is your recollection that “Plato’s early Socrates, more closely reflecting actual Socrates, was a nitpicker; and Plato’s late Socrates, a mouthpiece for Plato, was pushing for stuff”? Or the other way around?)
And I’m sure it is an oversimplification! Obviously Socrates was human and knew things and had ideas, no matter what he says and does in some of the dialogs. And obviously Plato was human and didn’t wait until late in his career to start having ideas of his own. And I never did ask how any classicists and historians decided what order Plato wrote his dialogs in, or whether it was controversial.
IIRC from the one relevant course I took over 15 years ago, that’s largely a difference between early Plato, reporting what Socrates did and said, and later Plato, using Socrates as a character/mouthpiece for his own ideas.
(To clarify—is your recollection that “Plato’s early Socrates, more closely reflecting actual Socrates, was a nitpicker; and Plato’s late Socrates, a mouthpiece for Plato, was pushing for stuff”? Or the other way around?)
According to the SEP page about Plato, the former is a widely held view (but the author of that page thinks it’s an oversimplification).
This. Awesome reference, thanks!
And I’m sure it is an oversimplification! Obviously Socrates was human and knew things and had ideas, no matter what he says and does in some of the dialogs. And obviously Plato was human and didn’t wait until late in his career to start having ideas of his own. And I never did ask how any classicists and historians decided what order Plato wrote his dialogs in, or whether it was controversial.