I haven’t seen the linked “The Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential” mentioned in the book
It’s what he’s referring to when he mentions ‘Philadelphia’, see the SSC comments.
neither a discussion whether gifted children are healthier or not
“Many gifted children acquire psycho-somatic problems, such as insomnia, headache, stomach pain, neuroses.”
Then, just look at the contradiction in what you wrote “let kids play… or just force them to learn the violin or piano”. So, which one is it going to be?
Both. There’s more than one hour in the day.
But I believe that at least 9 out of 10 people trying to teach their children chess would not start by playing dozens of games with kings and pawns only, but instead would try to explain how all chess pieces move at the same time, because that’s how people around me do teaching all the time, including many teachers.
I wasn’t taught that way, and I know for a fact that beginners to Go are almost always introduced with simplified ‘capture Go’, usually on a 9x9 board, and Go appears little different. Schools also usually start with simple versions of things because to do otherwise would be even more frustrating than teaching is. (‘See Spot run. Run, Spot, run.’)
Uhm, let’s start with the obvious: most people in developed countries don’t homeschool their children.
They don’t, but enough of them do. Tens or hundreds of millions of parents/kids over the past century have done homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori. If Polgar’s method could reliably turn most kids into geniuses, or could boost the odds so much that three chess masters is an expectable result, then even if only a tenth or less of those kids satisfied his criteria, hundreds of thousands of other children would already have succeeded. (Or is this a case of ‘Polgarism, comrades, has never truly been tried’?) We should be coming out our ears with chess masters who were homeschooled or physics prodigies, it should be impossible to read a biography of any Nobelist or famous scientist without seeing ‘oh and of course besides being Jewish, he was homeschooled’. This is what I mean by disproof: his nostrums have already been applied on a massive scale and failed.
It’s what he’s referring to when he mentions ‘Philadelphia’, see the SSC comments.
Thanks for explanation, didn’t notice that.
Tens or hundreds of millions of parents/kids over the past century have done homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori. If Polgar’s method could reliably turn most kids into geniuses, or could boost the odds so much that three chess masters is an expectable result, then even if only a tenth or less of those kids satisfied his criteria, hundreds of thousands of other children would already have succeeded.
How is “homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori” related to Polgár’s method? Unschooling is fundamentally incompatible; Montessori probably also wouldn’t be happy with kids playing chess 4 hours a day; homeschooling is a non-apple (“not in school” does not imply any specific teaching strategy).
Or is this a case of ‘Polgarism, comrades, has never truly been tried’?
Sorry, what? Polgár tried his method on 3 children, with 3 successful outcomes. What is your favorite explanation? Is it all just a concidence? (There are so many people boasting that they know how to bring up kids; statistically, sooner or later one of them is going to have 3 internationally famous kids.) Or did the kids inherit a lucky mutation of a chess-playing gene? Or was it just a high-IQ gene?
I agree that the experiment would be much more convincing with replication outside of the Polgár family. But it seems strange to point at people who not just never user Polgár’s method, but never even claimed to be using it, and most of them probably never even heard about the guy or his method, as if that is some kind of evidence that the method does not work.
It’s not just homeschooling. It’s starting the learning curve at an early age, as a game, and then spending several hours a day learning the subject. Essentially, having the proverbial 10000 hours done at puberty.
It’s starting the learning curve at an early age, as a game, and then spending several hours a day learning the subject. Essentially, having the proverbial 10000 hours done at puberty.
To me the idea that if you can get a child to be interested enough in a subject, that they will want to study it in a playful way and have their 10000 hours at puberty, that will likely make them very skillful at the task doesn’t sound like an extraordinary claim.
“Many gifted children acquire psycho-somatic problems, such as insomnia, headache, stomach pain, neuroses.”
The whole point of this sentence is that “psycho-somatic problems” are not actual health issues. I.e. when a gifted kid is complaining about her stomach, it’s very possible that there’s nothing actively wrong with her digestive system, and that the pain is just a random quirk due to excess stress.
Tens or hundreds of millions of parents/kids over the past century have done homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori
“Homeschooling” and “Montessori” are not good stand-ins for the Polgár approach, at least not in isolation. “Unschooling” is a lot closer, and the jury is still out on that, I’d say. Even that, though, arguably lacks the focus on voluntary deliberate practice that appears to be critical in what the Polgárs were doing.
there exist so-called talent-forming, genius-educating schools in Japan, lsrael, the GDR, USA, etc. (e.g. the Superbaby Farm of Glenn Doman in Philadelphia).
How likely it is that he simply approved of the idea of having talent-forming schools in general, knowing that no one would be allowed to create a school based on his ideas in his homeland (at given era).
It’s what he’s referring to when he mentions ‘Philadelphia’, see the SSC comments.
“Many gifted children acquire psycho-somatic problems, such as insomnia, headache, stomach pain, neuroses.”
Both. There’s more than one hour in the day.
I wasn’t taught that way, and I know for a fact that beginners to Go are almost always introduced with simplified ‘capture Go’, usually on a 9x9 board, and Go appears little different. Schools also usually start with simple versions of things because to do otherwise would be even more frustrating than teaching is. (‘See Spot run. Run, Spot, run.’)
They don’t, but enough of them do. Tens or hundreds of millions of parents/kids over the past century have done homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori. If Polgar’s method could reliably turn most kids into geniuses, or could boost the odds so much that three chess masters is an expectable result, then even if only a tenth or less of those kids satisfied his criteria, hundreds of thousands of other children would already have succeeded. (Or is this a case of ‘Polgarism, comrades, has never truly been tried’?) We should be coming out our ears with chess masters who were homeschooled or physics prodigies, it should be impossible to read a biography of any Nobelist or famous scientist without seeing ‘oh and of course besides being Jewish, he was homeschooled’. This is what I mean by disproof: his nostrums have already been applied on a massive scale and failed.
Thanks for explanation, didn’t notice that.
How is “homeschooling, unschooling, or Montessori” related to Polgár’s method? Unschooling is fundamentally incompatible; Montessori probably also wouldn’t be happy with kids playing chess 4 hours a day; homeschooling is a non-apple (“not in school” does not imply any specific teaching strategy).
Sorry, what? Polgár tried his method on 3 children, with 3 successful outcomes. What is your favorite explanation? Is it all just a concidence? (There are so many people boasting that they know how to bring up kids; statistically, sooner or later one of them is going to have 3 internationally famous kids.) Or did the kids inherit a lucky mutation of a chess-playing gene? Or was it just a high-IQ gene?
I agree that the experiment would be much more convincing with replication outside of the Polgár family. But it seems strange to point at people who not just never user Polgár’s method, but never even claimed to be using it, and most of them probably never even heard about the guy or his method, as if that is some kind of evidence that the method does not work.
It’s not just homeschooling. It’s starting the learning curve at an early age, as a game, and then spending several hours a day learning the subject. Essentially, having the proverbial 10000 hours done at puberty.
To me the idea that if you can get a child to be interested enough in a subject, that they will want to study it in a playful way and have their 10000 hours at puberty, that will likely make them very skillful at the task doesn’t sound like an extraordinary claim.
The whole point of this sentence is that “psycho-somatic problems” are not actual health issues. I.e. when a gifted kid is complaining about her stomach, it’s very possible that there’s nothing actively wrong with her digestive system, and that the pain is just a random quirk due to excess stress.
“Homeschooling” and “Montessori” are not good stand-ins for the Polgár approach, at least not in isolation. “Unschooling” is a lot closer, and the jury is still out on that, I’d say. Even that, though, arguably lacks the focus on voluntary deliberate practice that appears to be critical in what the Polgárs were doing.
Specifically here
The passage is:
How likely it is that he simply approved of the idea of having talent-forming schools in general, knowing that no one would be allowed to create a school based on his ideas in his homeland (at given era).