I’ve done a bunch of (what seems like) introspecting a bunch of (what seems like) ruminating. To me, there is a distinct difference between the two, but ironically I think telling the difference requires you to have some skill at introspection.
I could point to concrete differences, such as:
Rumination is repetitive.
Rumination is more like a rehearsal. It feels more like I’m saying words in my head.
Introspection is more like listening than saying things.
I (usually) feel like I ruminate by accident, and I introspect on purpose (although I can imagine a high-level mindfulness practitioner introspecting by reflex)
But ultimately it’s more like “Rumination has a different flavor than introspection.” Sometimes introspection is goal directed, sometimes it’s not. Sometimes introspection is repetitive. Sometimes it’s not. The rules I can come up with for “what is introspection?” don’t feel ironclad.
(Except perhaps that it feels more like listening than talking/acting?)
But nonetheless, when I’m ruminating, my whole body usually feels like it has a particular stance – more stressed, more concerned with action (sometimes rehearsing actions I plan to take later, sometimes just worrying about the state of the world as it is now). Whereas introspection feels more tranquil, like I’m sitting by a lake and observing it.
And maybe (if I’m having a bad day) the lake is full of garbage and the sky is stormy. But my stance towards the lake isn’t trying to fight anything, it’s just sitting and noting “ah, I see the lake is full of garbage today.” Whereas if I were ruminating I’d be thinking “gah the lake is full of garbage the lake is full of garbage I want it not to be full of garbage the lake is full of garbage.”
(And yes, in that example the rumination thoughts are repetitive, but I think the key ingredient is beginning with “gah” instead of “ah”)
This points to a lot of what the difference feels like to me! It jibes with my intuition for the situation that prompted this question.
I was mildly anxious about something (I forget what), and stopped myself as I was about to move on to some work (in which I would have lost the anxiety). I thought it might be useful to be with the anxiety a bit and see what was so anxious about the situation. This felt like it would be useful, but then I wondered if I would get bad ruminative effects. It seemed like I wouldn’t, but I wasn’t sure why.
I’m not sure if I should be given pause by the fact you say that rumination is concerned with action; my reading of the wikipedia page is that being concerned with action is a big missing feature of rumination
I feel like I do two types of things, that feel conceptually similar. (Maybe only one of them is rumination?)
Thinking about the state of the world and being stressed by it
Thinking about a particular social situation that is stressing me out, and rehearsing what I want to say to that person.
The former is more classical rumination, but they feel related. In the second case, my brain is clearly trying to get to a state where it feels like it knows what to do the next time I encounter the social situation, which is action-oriented.
Even in the first case… while I may not be planning any actions, it still feels like it’s oriented around action. Like, I’m feeling trapped and unable to act, but the whole thought process is still oriented around “man, I wish I could act.” Or “man, I’m worried about how other people are acting.”
I’ve done a bunch of (what seems like) introspecting a bunch of (what seems like) ruminating. To me, there is a distinct difference between the two, but ironically I think telling the difference requires you to have some skill at introspection.
I could point to concrete differences, such as:
Rumination is repetitive.
Rumination is more like a rehearsal. It feels more like I’m saying words in my head.
Introspection is more like listening than saying things.
I (usually) feel like I ruminate by accident, and I introspect on purpose (although I can imagine a high-level mindfulness practitioner introspecting by reflex)
But ultimately it’s more like “Rumination has a different flavor than introspection.” Sometimes introspection is goal directed, sometimes it’s not. Sometimes introspection is repetitive. Sometimes it’s not. The rules I can come up with for “what is introspection?” don’t feel ironclad.
(Except perhaps that it feels more like listening than talking/acting?)
But nonetheless, when I’m ruminating, my whole body usually feels like it has a particular stance – more stressed, more concerned with action (sometimes rehearsing actions I plan to take later, sometimes just worrying about the state of the world as it is now). Whereas introspection feels more tranquil, like I’m sitting by a lake and observing it.
And maybe (if I’m having a bad day) the lake is full of garbage and the sky is stormy. But my stance towards the lake isn’t trying to fight anything, it’s just sitting and noting “ah, I see the lake is full of garbage today.” Whereas if I were ruminating I’d be thinking “gah the lake is full of garbage the lake is full of garbage I want it not to be full of garbage the lake is full of garbage.”
(And yes, in that example the rumination thoughts are repetitive, but I think the key ingredient is beginning with “gah” instead of “ah”)
This points to a lot of what the difference feels like to me! It jibes with my intuition for the situation that prompted this question.
I was mildly anxious about something (I forget what), and stopped myself as I was about to move on to some work (in which I would have lost the anxiety). I thought it might be useful to be with the anxiety a bit and see what was so anxious about the situation. This felt like it would be useful, but then I wondered if I would get bad ruminative effects. It seemed like I wouldn’t, but I wasn’t sure why.
I’m not sure if I should be given pause by the fact you say that rumination is concerned with action; my reading of the wikipedia page is that being concerned with action is a big missing feature of rumination
I feel like I do two types of things, that feel conceptually similar. (Maybe only one of them is rumination?)
Thinking about the state of the world and being stressed by it
Thinking about a particular social situation that is stressing me out, and rehearsing what I want to say to that person.
The former is more classical rumination, but they feel related. In the second case, my brain is clearly trying to get to a state where it feels like it knows what to do the next time I encounter the social situation, which is action-oriented.
Even in the first case… while I may not be planning any actions, it still feels like it’s oriented around action. Like, I’m feeling trapped and unable to act, but the whole thought process is still oriented around “man, I wish I could act.” Or “man, I’m worried about how other people are acting.”