If you want to suggest it, why not make it happen it yourself? Personally, I’m in the process of editing a Naruto rationalist fanfic written by a friend of mine. I’m also a former Mage player with some knowledge of the Mage universe (though to be honest I’m more familiar and experienced with Ascension than I am Awakening), so I’d be happy to look at a draft of a Mage fanfic before you post it if you so choose, or else I’d certainly read it and review it once you post it.
The problem is that I am not myself a rationalist, so I wouldn’t be any good at writing it. Mage: The Ascension is not particularly good for rationalist fanfiction, since it takes place in a universe where consensus reality is true, and thus the scientific method fails as a way to understand the universe, since the laws of physics are determined by how many people believe in them.
Furthermore, the reason I bring this particular fandom up is because the other fans continually tell me that in the game world, rationalism and the scientific method are wrong, even though the books themselves do not actually support a conclusion like that.
Sure, the antagonists of the game insist they lead the Enlightenment, but only by actively suppressing evidence of the supernatural, encouraging disbelief, and utilizing spin doctoring to its utmost maximum (Seers of the Throne 29). The point was less about science and more about convincing ordinary people that the supernatural did not exist by whatever means possible.
A group called the Null Mysteriis even discovered, by examining werewolf corpses, that whatever causes the transformation “does not appear to obey known laws of chemistry, biology or physics: a realization that both excites and troubles” (Spirit Slayers 71). Since werewolves revert to human form upon death, they’ve considered vivisecting one to better understand the transformation, but many of them find it unethical.
it takes place in a universe where consensus reality is true, and thus the scientific method fails as a way to understand the universe, since the laws of physics are determined by how many people believe in them.
I know nothing about the story/game you’re talking about, but I think this is an important and common misconception, and fanfiction that addressed it directly might be worthwhile.
If it were an utterly chaotic universe, like what Brunner portrays in the Traveller in Black stories, then I might agree, but what you describe sounds instead like a universe with a regular and predictable relationship between people’s beliefs and events in the world.
I’d love to see stories about a rigorous thinker in such a universe working out ways to exploit its ground rules.
Yeah… I’d originally inferred that people and their beliefs somehow predated the universe’s laws of physics, but in retrospect that’s less narratively likely than some sort of default rule system.
We close a feedback loop in which people believe that the universe acts in its own predictable way which is discoverable by science. Which causes the universe to actually be that way. And from then on it becomes unalterable because it no longer cares what anyone thinks. The real problem is that of morals. If the universe can be anything people want, then we had better hurry up and figure out what the best possible world actually is, and then get people to believe it to be that way before we lock it in place as actually being that way.
I know nothing about the story/game you’re talking about, but I think this is an important and common misconception, and fanfiction that addressed it directly might be worthwhile.
It shows up in a bunch of places in fiction. Grant Morrison’s Invisibles and the Nobilis and Unknown Armies RPGs, I think. A particular bit is that something very much like the present-day real world shows up as a part of the greater reality, setting up the plausible deniability that the world might really be like the postmodern meta-reality described.
I’d love to see stories about a rigorous thinker in such a universe working out ways to exploit its ground rules.
I’m not sure exactly how much this would be a different from the regular Mage. As far as I understand, it’s already all about exploiting the meta-reality thing using whatever trickery the mages come up with.
I’m not also so sure how doing the rationalist subversion would work in Mage, since its universe is a lot sophisticated about working in a nonrational way than regular naive fantasy works. You’re basically up against an adult postmodernist instead of a child who believes in wizards.
If you really want a challenge try Genius the Transgression. It’s a fan-made expansion for World of Darkness. The world appears to have been optimized by a reasonably good rationalist to be as hard for an in universe character to analyze using the scientific method as possible, while still being an ordered universe.
Mage: The Ascension is actually fairly shallow. It places extreme importance on “paradigm” (cultural beliefs in magic) in spite of the fact that as a mage becomes more “enlightened” he gradually realizes that paradigm is window dressing. It buys into postmodern criticisms of science without understanding either science or postmodernism and buys into every conspiracy theory ever invented regardless of how much sense it makes. The heroes and villains are so single-minded, morally grey, and self-centered that it becomes impossible to care about anyone but the ordinary people caught in the crossfire. The apocalypse continually looms in the background like a noxious fume. Two of the major factions consist, respectively, of Goths and Wiccans.
I’d love to see someone who could treat the setting the way it appears in the books and not some idealized image.
If you want to suggest it, why not make it happen it yourself? Personally, I’m in the process of editing a Naruto rationalist fanfic written by a friend of mine. I’m also a former Mage player with some knowledge of the Mage universe (though to be honest I’m more familiar and experienced with Ascension than I am Awakening), so I’d be happy to look at a draft of a Mage fanfic before you post it if you so choose, or else I’d certainly read it and review it once you post it.
The problem is that I am not myself a rationalist, so I wouldn’t be any good at writing it. Mage: The Ascension is not particularly good for rationalist fanfiction, since it takes place in a universe where consensus reality is true, and thus the scientific method fails as a way to understand the universe, since the laws of physics are determined by how many people believe in them.
Furthermore, the reason I bring this particular fandom up is because the other fans continually tell me that in the game world, rationalism and the scientific method are wrong, even though the books themselves do not actually support a conclusion like that.
Sure, the antagonists of the game insist they lead the Enlightenment, but only by actively suppressing evidence of the supernatural, encouraging disbelief, and utilizing spin doctoring to its utmost maximum (Seers of the Throne 29). The point was less about science and more about convincing ordinary people that the supernatural did not exist by whatever means possible.
A group called the Null Mysteriis even discovered, by examining werewolf corpses, that whatever causes the transformation “does not appear to obey known laws of chemistry, biology or physics: a realization that both excites and troubles” (Spirit Slayers 71). Since werewolves revert to human form upon death, they’ve considered vivisecting one to better understand the transformation, but many of them find it unethical.
I know nothing about the story/game you’re talking about, but I think this is an important and common misconception, and fanfiction that addressed it directly might be worthwhile.
If it were an utterly chaotic universe, like what Brunner portrays in the Traveller in Black stories, then I might agree, but what you describe sounds instead like a universe with a regular and predictable relationship between people’s beliefs and events in the world.
I’d love to see stories about a rigorous thinker in such a universe working out ways to exploit its ground rules.
Not to mention that at least part of the reality must be sufficiently regular for there to be human-like observers in the first place
Yeah… I’d originally inferred that people and their beliefs somehow predated the universe’s laws of physics, but in retrospect that’s less narratively likely than some sort of default rule system.
We close a feedback loop in which people believe that the universe acts in its own predictable way which is discoverable by science. Which causes the universe to actually be that way. And from then on it becomes unalterable because it no longer cares what anyone thinks. The real problem is that of morals. If the universe can be anything people want, then we had better hurry up and figure out what the best possible world actually is, and then get people to believe it to be that way before we lock it in place as actually being that way.
It shows up in a bunch of places in fiction. Grant Morrison’s Invisibles and the Nobilis and Unknown Armies RPGs, I think. A particular bit is that something very much like the present-day real world shows up as a part of the greater reality, setting up the plausible deniability that the world might really be like the postmodern meta-reality described.
I’m not sure exactly how much this would be a different from the regular Mage. As far as I understand, it’s already all about exploiting the meta-reality thing using whatever trickery the mages come up with.
I’m not also so sure how doing the rationalist subversion would work in Mage, since its universe is a lot sophisticated about working in a nonrational way than regular naive fantasy works. You’re basically up against an adult postmodernist instead of a child who believes in wizards.
If you really want a challenge try Genius the Transgression. It’s a fan-made expansion for World of Darkness. The world appears to have been optimized by a reasonably good rationalist to be as hard for an in universe character to analyze using the scientific method as possible, while still being an ordered universe.
Genius has it’s far share of flaws. I don’t like it.
Mage: The Ascension is actually fairly shallow. It places extreme importance on “paradigm” (cultural beliefs in magic) in spite of the fact that as a mage becomes more “enlightened” he gradually realizes that paradigm is window dressing. It buys into postmodern criticisms of science without understanding either science or postmodernism and buys into every conspiracy theory ever invented regardless of how much sense it makes. The heroes and villains are so single-minded, morally grey, and self-centered that it becomes impossible to care about anyone but the ordinary people caught in the crossfire. The apocalypse continually looms in the background like a noxious fume. Two of the major factions consist, respectively, of Goths and Wiccans.
I’d love to see someone who could treat the setting the way it appears in the books and not some idealized image.
If you want to have a better understanding of Mage: The Ascension, you can download an electronic introductory booklet: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=58433
For a more in-depth treatment, you can buy the electronic rulebook: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_11&products_id=199&it=1