Thank you for the information! It seems good to get accounts like this from actual literal people. It also seems a little bad that someone is encouraging people who haven’t interacted with Said [edited: onLessWrong.com] to come comment on his ban post. That seems like it could lead to bad dynamics.
(It was me, and in the place where I encouraged DrShiny to come here and repeat what they’d already said unprompted, I also offered $5 to anybody who disagreed with the Said ban to please come and leave that comment as well.)
Well, this is someone who hasn’t interacted with Said in the sense of exchanging words. They have interacted with him in the sense that Said’s comments have marginally changed the trajectory of thir life. (So maybe we say they haven’t interacted with Said but Said has interacted with them? But that seems like the more important direction here.)
Like, some rando who never heard of LW or Said Achmiz chiming in to say “I would have found Said unpleasant if I’d been here” would feel a bit weird to me. Not off topic but also not very meaningful, and I’d be worried about selection effects. (Which I take to be the bad dynamics you’re thinking of. “We don’t get an unbiased sample of randos, so it’s hard to tell what randos-in-aggregate think.”)
But here… sure, there’s still some chance of selection effects, and it’s good to keep them in mind, which Duncan did.[1]
But there’s also selection effects that come from “people somewhat driven away by Said are less likely to be here than people nonewhat driven away by him”, and encouraging DrShiny to comment is a way of counteracting those.
So like, I think it’s good to notice the thing that you noticed, we should indeed be paying attention to such things, but ultimately I don’t think it was bad.
Granted, his attempt to fight against them presumably wasn’t 100% successful in expectation. Duncan’s discord members are probably somewhat selected in the direction of disliking Said, though I think less than a lot of people would guess.
Another thing that seems relevant: I claim the members are also somewhat selected for “people who would be a good fit for LW if they feel like being here”, and I haven’t spoken to DrShiny much but from what I have I believe they are such a person.
I meant to write “on LessWrong” and screwed up, aaargh! Thank you for noticing
Edit: That doesn’t answer your comment directly. Yeah, I’m still not super comfortable with the brigading-y dynamics, but am okay with them existing in a called-out form.
Thank you for the information! It seems good to get accounts like this from actual literal people. It also seems a little bad that someone is encouraging people who haven’t interacted with Said [edited: on LessWrong.com] to come comment on his ban post. That seems like it could lead to bad dynamics.
(It was me, and in the place where I encouraged DrShiny to come here and repeat what they’d already said unprompted, I also offered $5 to anybody who disagreed with the Said ban to please come and leave that comment as well.)
Appreciated and information received
Well, this is someone who hasn’t interacted with Said in the sense of exchanging words. They have interacted with him in the sense that Said’s comments have marginally changed the trajectory of thir life. (So maybe we say they haven’t interacted with Said but Said has interacted with them? But that seems like the more important direction here.)
Like, some rando who never heard of LW or Said Achmiz chiming in to say “I would have found Said unpleasant if I’d been here” would feel a bit weird to me. Not off topic but also not very meaningful, and I’d be worried about selection effects. (Which I take to be the bad dynamics you’re thinking of. “We don’t get an unbiased sample of randos, so it’s hard to tell what randos-in-aggregate think.”)
But here… sure, there’s still some chance of selection effects, and it’s good to keep them in mind, which Duncan did.[1]
But there’s also selection effects that come from “people somewhat driven away by Said are less likely to be here than people nonewhat driven away by him”, and encouraging DrShiny to comment is a way of counteracting those.
So like, I think it’s good to notice the thing that you noticed, we should indeed be paying attention to such things, but ultimately I don’t think it was bad.
Granted, his attempt to fight against them presumably wasn’t 100% successful in expectation. Duncan’s discord members are probably somewhat selected in the direction of disliking Said, though I think less than a lot of people would guess.
Another thing that seems relevant: I claim the members are also somewhat selected for “people who would be a good fit for LW if they feel like being here”, and I haven’t spoken to DrShiny much but from what I have I believe they are such a person.
I meant to write “on LessWrong” and screwed up, aaargh! Thank you for noticing
Edit: That doesn’t answer your comment directly. Yeah, I’m still not super comfortable with the brigading-y dynamics, but am okay with them existing in a called-out form.