This post is apparently dedicated to undermining the idea of a self that persists in time. In fact, it assumes that this is already the goal, and instead poses the question of why the brain would think that way in the first place, in the hope that the answers will allow the false idea to be driven out all the more efficiently.
Currently it has 14 upvotes and zero downvotes. So perhaps I’d better plant some seeds of doubt here: When your model of reality contradicts something that would otherwise seem undeniable, like the passage of time, or your own existence, not just in this moment, but as a being with a definite past and future… that’s not necessarily a signal to double down on the model and rationalize away your perceptions.
I don’t want to endorse every spontaneous opinion that anyone has ever had, or even the majority of common sense; and it’s inevitable and even desirable that people test out their models by taking them seriously, even if this leads to a few philosophical casualties. That’s part of the trial and error whereby lessons are learned.
So I will try to be specific. I would ask the reader to entertain the possibility that reality is not the way it is portrayed in their favorite reductionist or platonic-computational model; that these are quite superficial and preliminary conceptions of reality, overlooking some very basic causal factors that we just haven’t discovered yet, and “mathematical” insights that would completely reorder how we think of the formal part of these models, and correct understandings of what it means for something to exist and to have a property, and almost everything about how life is actually experienced and lived. And finally—here’s the punchline—please consider the possibility that these aspects of reality, not yet present in your favorite formalisms and theories, are precisely such as to allow time, and a personal self, and the objective persistence of that self through time, to be real.
So I will try to be specific. I would ask the reader to entertain the possibility that reality is not the way it is portrayed in their favorite reductionist or platonic-computational model; that these are quite superficial and preliminary conceptions of reality, overlooking some very basic causal factors that we just haven’t discovered yet, and “mathematical” insights that would completely reorder how we think of the formal part of these models, and correct understandings of what it means for something to exist and to have a property, and almost everything about how life is actually experienced and lived. And finally—here’s the punchline—please consider the possibility that these aspects of reality, not yet present in your favorite formalisms and theories, are precisely such as to allow time, and a personal self, and the objective persistence of that self through time, to be real.
I’m not sure how saying “it’s possible there’s something we might not know yet which might make persistent selves real” is being specific. (And if there’s anything any more specific than that in the paragraph, I seem to have missed it after reading it twice.)
Is reality really relevant here? The way I see it, if questions like these are phrased properly, a correct answer would be true for any universe I might find myself in.
I’m failing to think of any universe that could contain something like my human mind, in which conclusions other than the ones I have drawn on these matter could be true. Obviously, that could be a failure of my imagination.
Can anyone here describe a universe in which there is a… and I’m really not sure how else to describe this concept in ways that don’t use the word soul or make it sound silly … a thread connecting past and future subjective realities?
Causal interactions? The answer is rather trivial. In order for the separate meaningless Planck moments of the brain’s existence to be able to combine into “granules of qualia” that have integrity in time, they must be connected by something. It is usually assumed that there are causal relationships behind this, which can be likened to computational processes.
But many transhumanists, it seems to me, show some duality of thinking here. They agree that two adjacent computational cycles of the brain’s work can be combined into one sensation. But they refuse to assume the existence of more extended configurations of this kind.
Why? Well, there may be two motives here: correct and not quite correct.
On the one hand, we have here a special case of the anthropic principle. It can be argued that the anthropic principle inevitably forces the individual Planck moments of my brain’s existence to merge into my current sense of self. But the anthropic principle will not necessarily force my current sense of self to merge with my future sense of self in the same way.
On the other hand, many transhumanists want to believe in the ease of implementing projects like “mind uploading.” If the life of consciousness does not represent a single track, then “mind uploading” will be much easier to implement. Therefore, many people like to believe in a kind of Buddhism, where I-now exists, but I-chronoblock does not exist.
Which of the motives drives you more is up to you to decide.
This post is apparently dedicated to undermining the idea of a self that persists in time. In fact, it assumes that this is already the goal, and instead poses the question of why the brain would think that way in the first place, in the hope that the answers will allow the false idea to be driven out all the more efficiently.
Currently it has 14 upvotes and zero downvotes. So perhaps I’d better plant some seeds of doubt here: When your model of reality contradicts something that would otherwise seem undeniable, like the passage of time, or your own existence, not just in this moment, but as a being with a definite past and future… that’s not necessarily a signal to double down on the model and rationalize away your perceptions.
I don’t want to endorse every spontaneous opinion that anyone has ever had, or even the majority of common sense; and it’s inevitable and even desirable that people test out their models by taking them seriously, even if this leads to a few philosophical casualties. That’s part of the trial and error whereby lessons are learned.
So I will try to be specific. I would ask the reader to entertain the possibility that reality is not the way it is portrayed in their favorite reductionist or platonic-computational model; that these are quite superficial and preliminary conceptions of reality, overlooking some very basic causal factors that we just haven’t discovered yet, and “mathematical” insights that would completely reorder how we think of the formal part of these models, and correct understandings of what it means for something to exist and to have a property, and almost everything about how life is actually experienced and lived. And finally—here’s the punchline—please consider the possibility that these aspects of reality, not yet present in your favorite formalisms and theories, are precisely such as to allow time, and a personal self, and the objective persistence of that self through time, to be real.
I’m not sure how saying “it’s possible there’s something we might not know yet which might make persistent selves real” is being specific. (And if there’s anything any more specific than that in the paragraph, I seem to have missed it after reading it twice.)
It’s more specific than “science might be wrong when it contradicts [unspecified pre-scientiific belief]”.
Also, I listed a variety of ways in which the current scientifically-inspired belief might be falling short.
Is reality really relevant here? The way I see it, if questions like these are phrased properly, a correct answer would be true for any universe I might find myself in.
I’m failing to think of any universe that could contain something like my human mind, in which conclusions other than the ones I have drawn on these matter could be true. Obviously, that could be a failure of my imagination.
Can anyone here describe a universe in which there is a… and I’m really not sure how else to describe this concept in ways that don’t use the word soul or make it sound silly … a thread connecting past and future subjective realities?
Causal interactions? The answer is rather trivial. In order for the separate meaningless Planck moments of the brain’s existence to be able to combine into “granules of qualia” that have integrity in time, they must be connected by something. It is usually assumed that there are causal relationships behind this, which can be likened to computational processes.
But many transhumanists, it seems to me, show some duality of thinking here. They agree that two adjacent computational cycles of the brain’s work can be combined into one sensation. But they refuse to assume the existence of more extended configurations of this kind.
Why? Well, there may be two motives here: correct and not quite correct.
On the one hand, we have here a special case of the anthropic principle. It can be argued that the anthropic principle inevitably forces the individual Planck moments of my brain’s existence to merge into my current sense of self. But the anthropic principle will not necessarily force my current sense of self to merge with my future sense of self in the same way.
On the other hand, many transhumanists want to believe in the ease of implementing projects like “mind uploading.” If the life of consciousness does not represent a single track, then “mind uploading” will be much easier to implement. Therefore, many people like to believe in a kind of Buddhism, where I-now exists, but I-chronoblock does not exist.
Which of the motives drives you more is up to you to decide.