Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply—and no need to apologize for the disagreement, I genuinely appreciate the engagement! I want to add that I’m not a native speaker and my words in some cases may sound rude. I’m deeply sorry. I’m trying to be polite. Thank you.
I think there may be a misunderstanding worth clarifying: I never actually claimed that morality is external. I was observing that the mainstream discourse tends to treat morality as external rules—and then pointing out that the “moral muscles” metaphor implicitly contradicts that mainstream framing by treating morality as something internal and subjective. And we accept this internalization naturally.
My point to notice that people casually switch between these two framings (internal and external) without acknowledging the tension—and that this tension is worth examining more deeply.
So actually, I think we largely agree! Your point that morality is “applied conscience” existing within the mind—shaped by external training but ultimately internal—is precisely the kind of deeper examination I was calling for.
Where I was trying to go with this is your own conclusion: maybe morality is “objective, universally-true”—not just a cultural construct, not just “some guy’s opinion”, but something built into the nature of conscious beings. Your “hell-world” argument is a beautiful illustration of exactly this.
So my real question was never “is morality internal or external?” but rather: “Why does morality exist at all, and is it inevitable given the nature of conscious experience?”
Which, I think, is where you ended up too.
What we dismiss as subjective opinion may actually be a foundational structure of consciousness itself—not something consciousness possesses, but something consciousness requires in order to appear and be.
Thank you for understanding.
Even here it is observable that morality appears even there where people try to hide it.