Oxidize

• Oxidize 27 May 2025 20:51 UTC

  −7 points

  −1

  on: All Ra­tion­al­ists hate & sab­o­tage Strat­egy with­out hav­ing any aware­ness of it.

  Also, it’s worth noting that I made this post in another Rationalist community as well, and this post was banned there because according to the moderator it was: “An AI post”. The moderator’s lack of ability to recognize patterns led to them being unable to tell what an AI post and a non-AI post look like. Consequently, the moderator was “wrong” without even being aware of it. Which is what Rationalists always are. Rationalists are incredibly wrong by omission of critical information. They look at the ground beneath them and confidently proclaim, “The earth is flat!” without understanding the whole system. And then they sleep at night feeling good about how “right” they think they are.

• Oxidize 27 May 2025 20:43 UTC

  −5 points

  −2

  in reply to: Gyrodiot’s comment on: All Ra­tion­al­ists hate & sab­o­tage Strat­egy with­out hav­ing any aware­ness of it.

  It’s not surprising to me that you found my “generalizing” annoying. As I wrote in the document, Rationalists hate Strategist’s “presumptuousness”. When I say “Rationalist”, I am referring to a specific set of patterns in motivations & problem-solving that allow me to understand a lot about people who I have never personally met.

  “What do you make of Goal Factoring, one of the techniques designed to patch that class of behaviors ? If I see a self-identified rationalist not being aware of their own goals, and there are a bunch, goal factoring would be my first suggestion. I would expect them to be curious about it.”

  I’m not surprised or impressed that the concept of “Goal-Factoring” exists in this community.

  Strategists do “Goal-Factoring” automatically. And we do it more correctly because the process is more natural to our psychology.

  All I know and care about is the fact that the concept of “Goal-Factoring” is poorly implemented in real-world Rationalist psychology. And as a consequence, the world as a whole is being harmed. The conditions that have led to AGI being on the looming horizon are largely this factor of Rationalist psychology.

  “Mostly unnecessary caveat; one of the main draws of this website is to study the flaws of our own lenses.”

  Once again, I’m not surprised or impressed that Rationalists are familiar with psychological biases and whatnot. I only care that they consistently fail to utilize this knowledge in a way that effects positive real-world outcomes.

  Once again, “psychological biases” are another instance of something that come naturally to strategists. And we actually implement our understandings in the real-world in this context. I know for a fact that this statement angered a lot of Rationalists because “All humans are susceptible to psychological biases” And I know for a fact that you all missed the meaning of what I was actually saying, which is not that 100% of Strategists avoid 100% of psychological biases 100% of the time. I am saying that we are more effective at counteracting our psychological biases than Rationalists to a significant degree. Because your motivations are to use validity-based thinking itself, you subconsciously refuse to use patterns-based reasoning and consequently you find useless errors in things that are perfectly fine statements relative to how they relate to functional outcomes.

  “Please be undeterred by the negative karma, it’s only a signal that this particular post may fail at its intended purpose. Namely:”

  I am completely deterred by the negative karma, just like every other Strategist in the past who was systemically downvoted into oblivion by the unthinking majority on this site.

  And the exact reason I am deterred, is because as a strategist. I am extremely good at seeing patterns. And I know that there is no real solution to the problem of Rationalists & Strategists incompatibility, because I can predict what will happen if I take a given set of actions with high-accuracy.

  You couldn’t see the document because the document relies on pattern recognition and you didn’t use pattern recognition to confirm or deny the statements on strategy listed below the statement. And you didn’t do so, because you aren’t intrinsically motivated to use your pattern recognitions systems. Since the motivations aren’t intrinsic to you, I would have to create a strategy to externally motivate you to take the actions. I’ve determined that the effort required to do this is not worth the results of achieving the objective.

  On the context, of “to little guidance on how to get those heuristics understood.” I completely agree with you. The result of this post and the incomprehensibility of the list are due to my own incompetence. And I do not have the motivation to put in the effort to explain the process of strategy in a way rationalists can understand because I believe that no matter how useful the information I create, the motivations necessary to put that information into practice will be lacking among Rationalists. This is due to a complex interaction of systems in the brain that you need a strategic mind to be able to understand.

  “Listing the virtues is a starting point, but one does not simply say “go forth and learn for yourself what Good Strategy is” and see that done without a lot of nudging, or else one might stay in the comfort of “validity-based reasoning” all call it a day. Which I would find disappointing.”

  I agree with you on this point. But this document was a test to me to see if “listing the virtues” even had potential to result in any reaction. It doesn’t, because Rationalists are too ignorant of the broader truth & too controlled by non-beliefs based motivations in order to see the reality. Since my faith in the open-mindedness of Rationalists was let down, there is no other informational contingency keeping me here.

  So congratulations, you can all stay comfortable in your mind-prisons where you spend hundreds of hours thinking while getting barely anything done in the real world. I’m done trying to free you.

• Oxidize 27 May 2025 20:12 UTC

  −10 points

  −2

  on: All Ra­tion­al­ists hate & sab­o­tage Strat­egy with­out hav­ing any aware­ness of it.

  Well Rationalists, thanks for being the problem.

  After the complete lack of open-mindedness represented by the downvotes on this post, I have decided that Rationalists quite literally can’t be reasoned with.

  Strategists and Rationalists will stay enemies for the rest of mankind’s future, because you people are destroying the world and you can’t see it even if it’s clearly pointed out to you.

  And this will perpetuate the echo chamber where you “intellectuals” continue to “intellectually” get each other off without ever actually getting anything done.

  I keep seeing posts like, “AI timeline 2027” and “Why are we failing”. And now I subconsciously fall on the psychological fallacy I pointed out earlier in this post, where I’m honestly questioning the legitimacy of your underlying motivations in this context. Do any of you actually care about the world?

  I literally pointed out the exact problem to “Why Rationalists are failing” and my post gets drowned into the abyss so that no one can see it. I’m done trying to reason with Rationalists. Mods, go ahead and ban this post. I’m so sick of getting banned from Rationalist communities for stating controversial opinions and trying to actually galvanize any productivity, so I will no longer be participating in these communities.

• Oxidize 27 May 2025 1:22 UTC

  −8 points

  0

  in reply to: Yaroslav Granowski’s comment on: All Ra­tion­al­ists hate & sab­o­tage Strat­egy with­out hav­ing any aware­ness of it.

  personally, I see Rationalism as the reason why and Strategy as the why and how

  Yeah, the karma suicide kind of sucks, but I’m not smart enough to present controversial ideas in a way that prevents the downvotes

• Oxidize 26 May 2025 22:39 UTC

  −2 points

  −3

  on: Why Aren’t Ra­tion­al­ists Win­ning (Again)

  Because Rationalists overemphasize rationality while underemphasizing other important aspects of reality like strategy, persuasion, and meta-goal-directed-rationality. (What I mean by meta-goal-directed-rationality in this context is the degree with which an individual’s actions are actually rational relative to a stated or internal goal as opposed to an externalized system that is actually minimally goal aligned in form or function)

All Ra­tion­al­ists hate & sab­o­tage Strat­egy with­out hav­ing any aware­ness of it.

• Oxidize 10 Apr 2025 22:46 UTC

  1 point

  0

  in reply to: Viliam’s comment on: How fa­mil­iar is the Less­wrong com­mu­nity as a whole with the con­cept of Re­ward-mod­el­ling?

  These are 6 sample titles I’m considering using. Any thoughts come to mind?

  1. AI-like reward functioning in humans. (Comprehensive model)

  2. Agency in humans

  3. Agency in humans | comprehensive model of why humans do what they do

  4. EA should focus less on AI alignment, more on human alignment

  5. EA’s AI focus will be the end of us all.

  6. EA’s AI alignment focus will be the end of us all. We should focus on human alignment instead

• Oxidize 10 Apr 2025 15:08 UTC

  3 points

  0

  in reply to: mishka’s comment on: How fa­mil­iar is the Less­wrong com­mu­nity as a whole with the con­cept of Re­ward-mod­el­ling?

  Thanks for this. Do you have any ideas of what terminology i should use if I mean models used to predict reward in human contexts?

• Oxidize 10 Apr 2025 15:07 UTC

  1 point

  0

  in reply to: Viliam’s comment on: How fa­mil­iar is the Less­wrong com­mu­nity as a whole with the con­cept of Re­ward-mod­el­ling?

  I’d say that the ⁸⁰⁄₂₀ of the concept is how reward & punishment affect human behavior.
  
  Is it about which forces?
  - I would say I’m referring to a combination of instinct, innate attraction/​aversion, previous experience, decision-making, attention, and how they relate to each other in an everyday practical context.
  
  Seems to me that “genetics”
  - I would say your disentanglement is right on the money. Rather than making an analysis for LLMs, I’m particularly interested in fleshing out the inter relations between concepts as they relate to the human brain.
  
  Do you want a similar analysis for LLMs?
  I mean it from a high-level agency perspective, as opposed to in specific AI or machine learning contexts.
  
  Goal?
  My goal is to learn more about what information Lesswrongers use and are interested in so that I can better create a post for the community.
  
  
  Adjacent concepts

  • Self-discipline

  • Positive psychology

  • Systems & patterns thinking

  • Maybe reward-functions?

• Oxidize 10 Apr 2025 13:59 UTC

  1 point

  0

  in reply to: Viliam’s comment on: How fa­mil­iar is the Less­wrong com­mu­nity as a whole with the con­cept of Re­ward-mod­el­ling?

  Thank you so much for the reply. You prevented me from making a pretty big mistake.
  
  I’m defining reward-modelling as the manipulation of the direction of an agent’s intelligence. From a goal-directed perspective.
  
  So the reward-modelling of an AI might be the weights used, its training environment, mesa-optimization structure, inner-alignment structure, etc.
  
  Or for a human, it might be genetics, pleasure, and pain.
  
  Is there a better word I can use for this concept? Or maybe I should just make up a word?

• Oxidize 10 Apr 2025 0:24 UTC

  1 point

  0

  on: Are there any (semi-)de­tailed fu­ture sce­nar­ios where we win?

  This is actually my primary focus. I believe it can be done through a complicated process that targets human psychology, but to explain it simply

  - Spread satisfaction & end suffering.
  - Spread rational decision-making
  
  To further simplify, if everyone was like us, and no one was on the chopping block if AGI doesn’t get created, then the incentive to create AGI seizes and we effectively secure decades for AI-safety efforts.
  
  This is a post I made on the subject.
  
  https://​​www.lesswrong.com/​​posts/​​GzMteAGbf8h5oWkow/​​breaking-beliefs-about-saving-the-world

[Question] How fa­mil­iar is the Less­wrong com­mu­nity as a whole with the con­cept of Re­ward-mod­el­ling?

• Oxidize 25 Mar 2025 0:28 UTC

  1 point

  0

  in reply to: Rafael Harth’s comment on: Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

  Sounds like you’re speaking from a set of fundamental different beliefs than I’m used to. I’ve trained myself to write assuming that the audience is uninformed about the topic I’m writing about. But it sounds like you’re writing from the perspective of the LW community being more informed than I can properly understand or conceptualize. How can I gain more information on the flow of information in the Lesswrong community? I assumed any insights I’ve arrived at as a consequence of my own thinking & conclusions I’ve reached from various unconnected sources would likely be insights specific to me, but maybe I’m wrong. But yeah, I agree with you just wanting to write something does not sound like a good place to start to be value-additive to this community. I’ll remember to only post when I believe I have valuable and unique insights to share.

• Oxidize 20 Mar 2025 0:56 UTC

  3 points

  0

  in reply to: Viliam’s comment on: Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

  Thanks for the advise. I see how the linked posts are a lot more specific than the one I made. I’ll try making some posts confined to specific domains of psychology, maybe in a very detailed & rational structure. Then maybe I can link to those posts in a larger post where I use those understandings/​pieces of information to make a claim about a vehicle for using the information for practical change in the real world. I’m not sure I’m capable of giving up on macro-directional efforts like attempts to improve humanity as a whole, but I’ll try and change the way I structure writings to be self-contained and linked externally for supplemental information as opposed to the entire post being dependent on a linked doc.

• Oxidize 20 Mar 2025 0:34 UTC

  3 points

  0

  in reply to: lsusr’s comment on: Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

  Thank you for the advise. I’ll switch my writing style to be more objective & I’ll try to remember to avoid ineffective pandering/​creative styles. I’ll continue linking at the end of posts when necessary, but I’ll try to make sure my initial post provides value to readers.
  
  Thanks for including the link. I’ll read through these and use the posts to further my understanding of the community.

• Oxidize 20 Mar 2025 0:28 UTC

  5 points

  0

  in reply to: cata’s comment on: Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

  Thank you for this comment. I view writing through a marketing context, but I didn’t realize that the people on Lesswrong are this motivated by intellectual stimulation/​learning. In retrospect it seems obvious, but nonetheless I’m glad to have learned from my mistakes. I’ll prioritize using curiosity & supplying new information from now on with more concise references to contexts/​background information from now on. And I’ll avoid the kind of emotionally targeted tone/​structure that I used in my first post.

• Oxidize 19 Mar 2025 18:58 UTC

  2 points

  0

  in reply to: datawitch’s comment on: Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

  Thanks for the advice. I want to learn how to make better posts in the future so I’ll try to figure out how to improve.
  
  Should I not have began by talking about background information & explaining my beliefs?
  - Should I have the audience had contextual awareness and gone right into talking about solutions?
  
  
  Or was the problem more along the lines of writing quality, tone, or style?
  - What type of post do you like reading?
  - Would it be alright if I asked for an example so that I could read it?
  
  
  Also you’re right. Looking back that post was the only one that received a lot of downvotes. I must’ve gained an inaccurate perception of what the reality was because I initially made a major mistake when I first made the post. And the feeling of a lack of concrete proposals was definitely a major fault on my part since I initially didn’t properly link the doc
  
  But do you think was there something else I could’ve done so that you would have been more interested in reading the linked doc? Maybe if I’d made it as part of the same post? Or linked to a Lesswrong post instead of a google doc?

[Question] Why am I get­ting down­voted on Less­wrong?

• Oxidize 15 Jan 2025 1:39 UTC

  1 point

  −5

  on: Sub­skills of “Listen­ing to Wis­dom”

  I’m a 20 year old who perceives myself as the kind of young founder you’re probably talking to in this post. And I’ve noticed a lot of older guys have similar sentiments to you about younger guys and the perspective often annoys me. I do everything I can to learn from other people, but in the context of giving and receiving advice I believe that a lot of information is typically not considered. For example, you talk about a lot of mistakes younger people make that could be easily avoided if they had the older generation’s wisdom, but as conveyed by this post, your knowledge/​skillset of communicated complex ideas in a way that can be understood by someone with different knowledge/​experiences appears limited to me. Additionally, I’ve written over a thousand documents and am thinking every hour of every day from the perspectives that I value and want to improve in. Someone who doesn’t have any context with which to understand me or even what I want can seldom give good advice aimed at observed circumstances in my opinion. The best advise I’ve received tends to be advice not directed at me because of reasons like this.
  
  
  I don’t believe burnout is real. I have theories on why people think it’s real, but I think the phenomenon people label as burnout is more complex than people understand, and advice about burnout is consequently not very helpful. I know you’ve said you don’t typically try to argue/​explain yourself around this belief, but if I’m wrong and you have some insight that can only be gained with experience I’m not privy to, I would be thankful if you would correct my false belief.
  

  I agree with most of what I’ve read in this post, I mainly disagree with some of the perspectives you take.
  

  
  I read through most of the beginning of this post. Then started skimming by my perception of header relevance to the original idea of the post. I’m not really sure what goal you were trying to achieve by branching off into so many different topics in a single post instead of creating separate posts, but I’m still pretty green to the LessWrong community and the norms here, so maybe you can enlighten me. I’m also very biased towards practical texts, so I believe I just am not the target audience for most of this post. I liked the statements about trigger#1 and trigger #2 in the practical section, and its given me some insightful tips I’d never thought of on how to be a better listener. I recently made a note to myself that people say what they mean, so take them literally instead of translating their words into something you already understand. Admittedly, I have not been following my own advice. And this post has served as a valuable reminder for me. I’m really interested in communicated and learning about complex, soulful ideas so maybe you could direct me to some good practical posts on the topic. I’ve had to navigate this skillset entirely alone, so I’d rather not reinvent the wheel if someone has already publicized their work around this.
  

• Oxidize 19 Nov 2024 21:11 UTC

  2 points

  0

  in reply to: StartAtTheEnd’s comment on: Break­ing be­liefs about sav­ing the world

  Thanks for making a well-thought out comment. It’s really helpful for me to have an outside perspective from another intelligent mind.
  
  I’m hoping to learn more from you, so I’m going to descend into a way of writing that assumes we have a lot of the same beliefs/​understandings about the world. So if it gets confusing, I apologize for not being able to communicate myself more clearly.
  
  
  
  Your 1st point:
  This is an interesting perspective shift. The concept that by endeavoring to help people understand suffering, I would be causing suffering itself, since I’d be creating an expectation/​ideal that virtually no one in society has met. I agree with this point, and I have a lot of perspectives on this. I’m curious about what you think of them.
  
  My 1st perspective: The marketing perspective.
  
  Since I want people to change, I want them to be in pain or suffer. Since without pain, the motivation to change is typically weak or non-existent. As cruel an non-idealistic as it may be, I don’t endeavor to be an idealist. I endeavor to be realist and rationalist. People have to feel pain in order to take actions necessary to better their lives. No one would imply that a farmer shouldn’t put in the work to plant crops. The village’s desire to eat, is of greater importance than the farmer’s desire to feel physically comfortable.
  
  I think that if I were trying to cater to idealist perspectives, I would need to emphasize suffering being bearable when in pursuit of reward. On some level, I understand how this process works in my own psychology and have been able to manipulate it, but my ability to help other people do the same thing remains uncertain. I think that there are multiple other sources of reward that can be used for this purpose other than goal-progress oriented reward, (Such as food, media entertainment, or social) but I agree that showing people that they are making clear progress will be very beneficial for increasing the acceptability of a person’s suffering in this context.
  
  My 2nd perspective: Which subsets of people will experience increased suffering as a result of the implementation of the ideas expressed in this document?
  
  I don’t think this would negatively impact people who are currently already unsatisfied with their life. Since it would just shift their focus from their current ideals/​unfulfilled desires to the new one that’s being presented.
  
  (Except this time, since they understand the systems at play in their mind and in their environment, they will actually have the power to change things)
  
  So people won’t need to rely on a large set of trial & error + heuristics to perceive that they’ve reached their ideal.
  
  I could be wrong on the aforementioned point. If instead of shifting focuses, a person adds this to a long subconscious list of things they should be that they are not, it could increase suffering even in people who are already dissatisfied with life. If testing reveals that this is the case, I think that unraveling sets of beliefs about what a person should be will help alleviate this suffering. (This would be done by utilizing marketing tactics such as storytelling)
  
  but for subsets of people who are currently satisfied with their life, I don’t think that introducing new ideals will increase suffering. There are lots of current societal ideals/​expectations that re near-impossible to live up to. If this subset of people are satisfied even in spite of the external ideals/​expectations they are unable to embody, I see no reason to believe that introducing a new ideal would cause this subset of people to suffer.
  
  Although It could be argued that the reason these people are satisfied is because they’ve fooled themselves into believing they are meeting those impossible societal ideals/​expectations. Even if this is argued, I think they would just continue to fool themselves by using the mental processes that have reduced their suffering in the past.

  My 3rd perspective: Worst case scenario:

  I have some critically inaccurate belief about the world/​other people. And in reality, the only thing I’ll be able to do is show people how life could be better without actually being able to get anyone to change in this way.
  
  
  Your 2nd point
  
  Completely agree. It’s good that you caught me on this point, because in reflection, if I don’t clarify the core of the problem more clearly, the problem could easily be mispercieved as something far more simple than is necessary to actually improve people’s lives. I almost fell into the”One man’s utopia is another man’s hell” archetype. I think I’m just unaware about how to implement this without getting too deep into psychology and a lot of interrelated concepts.
  
  If I was solely speaking to an audience that had your level of understanding of human psychology as it relates to suffering, then I could immediately begin clarifying my position on deeper concepts related to suffering.
  
  But since the average person doesn’t have a concept of suffering as an isolated concept from pain, I think that it could be difficult to help people make that conceptual jump.
  
  I do intend to make a few separate versions intended for different target audience levels of intellect, so I might be able to solve this problem with my implementation here.
  
  
  Your 3rd point
  In retrospect, I realize that I was very liberal with my usage of the term “EA”, and I made no effort to clarify what I meant by my usage of the term. Just to be sure we’re on the same page, When I say “We” in “we are products of EA”, I’m referring to a hypothetical group of people who want to prevent human extinction. (The target audience of this post). I definitely don’t mean to imply that another person or group’s altruistic deliberations had anything to do with our current beliefs or abilities. I’m also not referring to any organization or group of people when I say “EA”, What I mean is the broader state of altruistic tendencies among intellectuals/​rational people as a movement.
  
  I realize now that I made an unjustified assumption that efforts for the prevention of human extinction would have altruistic motivations. And as you’ve pointed out, I may be wrong.
  
  
  ”Would reducing suffering really be a good thing?”
  
  I’m thinking about this question. And I realize I’m not actually qualified to answer it.
  
  From a humanitarian or idealist perspective, obviously we should reduce pointless suffering and help people gain the tools necessary to deal with or accept suffering. But from a complexity or future-prediction perspective, it is difficult to know what the far-reaching consequences of this hypothetical world would be. If people know how to consciously reduce their own suffering and engineer their environments in a way that makes life more satisfactory for them, the results could be akin to a sort of malignant idea virus. As we’ve both said, without suffering, there is no change, By democratizing these tools, we could be erasing a core and crucial element of human change. Since choosing suffering as opposed to satisfaction is completely contradictory to human nature, once a person receives the information, they could be forever changed for the worse.
  
  
  I also grew because of my suffering. And In this post, I meant to say that I was the most productive when I didn’t eat. Not eating only significantly reduced my productivity when how much I ate was outside of my conscious control.
  
  Suffering has made me into the person I am, and I am an avid believer in the pro-social benefits of personal suffering. But it is still true that unacceptable suffering outside of an individual’s control is what causes the scarcity mindset. (Eradicating the scarcity mindset & increasing the prevalence of altruistic perspectives is the whole point of reducing human suffering in the context of preventing human extinction.)
  
  Additionally, there are certain important aspects of human psychology that I’m still unsure about. For example, to what degree does pain as a stimulus cause change? To what degree does suffering cause change? To what degree does an individual’s acceptability of suffering affect change?
  
  And to the 3 aforementioned questions, in what way?

  
  Your 4th point
  
  My fault for not better clarifying my perspective here.
  
  I’m claiming that even if scarcity mindsets fade and altruism spreads, we will still go extinct if the average person is as dumb as I am. “Create a community”, and “Spread logical decisionmaking” are complementary to the concept of reducing human suffering, but their ultimate purpose is the continued existence of the human species. They are 2 of 3 points aimed at managing humanity’s likelihood of destroying itself with some form of technology.
  
  I personally think that intellect past a certain level gives humans the ability to deliberately manipulate their suffering, but I think that on the spectrum with which every human I’m aware of exists lies, intellect does not seem to make suffering controllable in any non-proxy way. In other words, I don’t think that tech or intellect are strong predictors relative to suffering at our current capabilities for tech and intellect.
  
  To respond to your point on anything other than survival & reproduction being a fabricated problem, I would agree. I feel like you can always meta-contradict the concept of meaning, since human meaning is constructed by our psychological systems, rather than by any universal truth. We can argue that pain is bad, and pleasure is good. Only to realize that those two concepts are only proxies for what we actually optimize for, suffering and satisfaction. So then we can argue that suffering is bad, and satisfaction is good. Only to gain perspective on the concept of agency, and to realize that suffering and satisfaction are just mesa-optimizers for evolution. I believe this process can go on an on, but the reality is that we are still mesa-optimizers, and so we have a natural inclination towards certain things and an intuition to call it meaningful. Anyone can take a nihilistic perspective an argue that nothing is meaningful, but if nothing is meaningful, then there is also no point in doing nothing, and we can do whatever we want. So I think the concept of meaning is a sort of recursive argument that we don’t have the intellectual tools to solve. So rather than do nothing, I think we should do what we can.
  
  Your 5th point (Bureaucracy)
  I don’t know anything about how decentralization can help with the problem of bureaucracy. Maybe you can point me to a source of information that will help me see your perspective on this?
  
  I’m also interested in your perspective on a few entities within a bureaucracy hogging all the resources. I presume you’re referring to management claiming credit or capital distributions received by the owner class?
  
  I look at bureaucracy from a business perspective. They call it operational complexity, and it refers to the reduced level of control of the founder over a business as the organization/​tasks get more complex.
  
  As the founder loses control over incentive structures, hiring practices, and training, the impact of the founder’s competence dilutes and regresses towards the mean of the average human.
  
  It also refers to increases in tasks that are not the actual revenue-producing activity. An example would be salesman filling out excel sheets instead of talking with prospects.
  
  Another example would be the increased training time required for adding an additional task to a specific role, and the increased training time for the people who are training those people, and the butterfly effect that has on the entirety of the business.

  Also, the increased need for competent problem-solving as old systems break, and new systems (Or slight variations of old systems) become necessary.
  
  My shortest definition on how I see Bureaucracy = reduced efficiency in multiple ways for multiple reasons as organizations grow larger.

  
  Your 6th point (Moloch)
  From my understanding, Moloch = a more complex representation of the prisoner’s dilemma.
  
  The state of everything growing worse as a result of competition & a lack of control resulting from the fact that you either pool resources in a locally helpful but globally harmful way, or you seize to exist.
  

  Your take: “Caused by too much information and optimization, and therefore unlikely to be solved with information and optimization. My take here is the same as with intelligence and tech.”
  
  I wonder about what basis/​set of information you’re using to make these 3 claims? I am currently unable to respond in a productive way without further context.

  
  “Why hasn’t moloch killed us sooner? I believe it’s because the conditions for moloch weren’t yet reached (optimal strategies weren’t visible, as the world wasn’t legible and transparent enough), in which case, going back might be better than going forwards.”
  
  And I may have misunderstood your point here, but from my understanding you’re arguing something like: “Why aren’t we in a state of perfect Moloch in present society?” (I’m not sure what you mean by “optimal strategies weren’t visible”.) And when you say going back instead of forwards, you seem to be implying that the solution to preventing human extinction as it relates to tech is simply to remove technology.
  
  Which in my opinion, will inevitably lead future generations back to this exact point in technological capabilities, and they might not also decide to regress technological capabilities since their society would be vastly different than our own in terms of culture-based differences such as values & identity. I don’t see the reasoning behind pushing the problem forward onto later generations as opposed to attempting to solve the problem for good.
  
  It’d also be great if you could point me to a piece of writing on world legibility and transparency. Since I don’t currently have the context with which to understand what those two things mean.

  
  
  
  Your final point
  
  What’s leading humanity to extinction in my opinion:
  1. Increased technological capabilities
  2. Our lack of ability to control the impacts of these capabilities

  3. our lack of incentive to manage those capabilities.

  4. Our lack of control over the first 3 points.

  I agree that my proposed solutions for the problems we face are reliant on systems currently driving humanity towards extinction.

  But I don’t agree with the implied understanding that every system associated with our current path to extinction needs to be removed in order for human extinction to be prevented. I believe that certain aspects within the system can be changed, while larger high-level systems can remain the same. And we can still solve the problem of human extinction this way. For example, Elon Musk trying to get humans to mars is reliant on technology, but it is also a hedge against human-extinction at the same time.
  
  
  I know I wrote a lot, but I love that you’re making me question assumptions I’ve made that I’ve never even thought to question.
  
  Maybe I don’t currently have the base-knowledge necessary to create helpful high-level plans. But I’m not sure how I can better use my time relative to helping prevent human extinction.
  
  I’ll edit this document with what we’ve talked about here in mind and see what I can do to improve this post.