Investment in psychology research won’t stop, I think, so if there are any issues with how it is being done, it would be best to resolve them, no? A minimal investment will have to be made, just to avoid people wasting more money in the future.
Osiris
Given that much of my to-post list, I love what you just said.
Declaring that ghosts do not exist when one sees a sheeted fellow float by is not enough. Sometimes, one must examine stuff closely, even if the chances are that it is a scam/wrong/useless. Why? My own reasons have been:
By unmasking the ghost, you decrease the number of people wasting their money and time on ghosts.
Your efforts may discourage a scam artist seeking to use the same trick, if you unmask the ghost.
Close examination of the ghost may reveal useful knowledge that does not have to do with ghosts.
However small the chance, ghosts may be real, and you’ve just uncovered an entirely new thing worth time and money.
1 and 2, in my opinion, are VERY useful in this century. People need examples of rational thinking.
With 3 and 4, it is important to note that not all estimates we make are right, or have a chance of being right. I am reminded of a recent Pascal’s Wager article posted here. Whether it is the enthusiasm of those who look forward to a new power source or the skeptics who have reasonable doubts, someone is BOUND to be wrong in their estimates. I look forward to any future development in “is cold fusion real after all?” question as a lesson in what the best way to estimate would be.
The problem with lottery tickets is that in buying one, you accept that the chances of winning are slim to none. The expected payoff of any activity which tests if knowledge is true, is true knowledge. I always win that gamble, so long as I play the game (as stated previously in numbers 1 through 4). And it is about fun—what’s more fun than educating people, helping people, finding new stuff, or validating someone’s claims? Seems like the essence of science to me… Skepticism is useful only when you know something the one making the claim doesn’t know, after all. For example, the probability of Deepok Chopra’s ideas about the mind being correct are so small because of what we already know about psychology, and because his stuff contradicts itself. Deepok Chopra’s claims are, therefore, not worth testing, not because all weird claims are not worth testing, but because even the payoff of “proven wrong” may be impossible in such a case (no learning will take place).
PS: I suspect I’m getting something wrong here. Still, I will go forward, to see what I can learn. As I said, I look forward to seeing how people estimate the whole cold fusion business. So, what kind of game do you think is being played? Is this the same as playing the lottery (dumping money into something that won’t even produce learning, and hence fun)? Is it worth it to test cold fusion, based on previous knowledge? Why? My own position is, of course, cautious optimism (not investing in cold fusion for a while yet), because I expect to see SOME kind of reward no matter the outcome—it SEEMS to me like scientists are doing science, here (not that I know enough to say with 90 percent certainty)...
Ah! I think I see what you mean. This is a matter of how much one wins, not whether one wins.
As for usefulness. What do you mean?
Thanks for commenting!
The easy answer is everything. All things that are and can coexist. This is, of course, because I want humanity to survive and thrive as much and as well as possible.
You could say it is an attempt at being a bit more like the dreaded paperclip maximizer, which is a fierce beast indeed, and worth learning from(any reference to kung fu movies is intentional).
Thank you! I will go and take a look!
Welcome, fellow new person! You’ve got some wonderful music. Any particular things that interest you in the “confusing question” genre?
Getting rid of religion is a bit like getting rid of the economy or government. Yes, the whole business of ritual (and most other cultural stuff religion claims) can be changed, eliminating religion as we know it today, but simply declaring one day that “religion doesn’t exist” will lead to other problems, which may actually be WORSE than some people holding a usually non-harmful belief, or belief-in-belief. Cults, of personality and otherwise, come up as a terrifying option...
Changing religion is a Long Game.
A far more constructive use of one’s time, to increase rationality in the population, is to encourage rational thinking among the majority of mankind (who are religious, anyway, so you give them the option of thinking about religion better, thus playing the Long Game).
Exactly. As I said, the best we can hope for is to slowly eliminate religion as we know it today. Not to eliminate religion, period.
I share considerably more of my heritage with Asians than I do with Caucasians. However, I do not have the same coloration.
So, if one is racist-1, how would one treat me? Am I white, for appearing white? Am I Asian, for the overwhelming number of my ancestors’ coloration? In other words, what makes race? My genetics, or my skin? If it is my skin, then it would appear race is nothing more than a bit of culture, with no real advantages or disadvantages attached save those given by appearance.
For the record, I consider myself of no race save human, and expect others to see me as a human being.
What will you do now that you can’t form a movement of rationalists? Take over world? Become a superhero? Invent the best recipe for cookies? MAINTAIN AND INCREASE DIVERSITY?
For example, I am going to post a recipe for a bacon trilobite and my experiences and thoughts about paperclipping among humans. Any interesting things you be thinkin’ of postin’? ^^
I recommend teaching nonsense. A little bit of science fiction, mythology, and an introduction to the world’s multifaceted culture (the Internet helps, but not nearly as much as people seem to imagine) may result in more creativity and attention to lessons children in poor countries would find boring. Yes, we want useful people, but a great part of that is creating a free, strong human being, not a clever machine or a rebel.
Create artistic programs with a “pet” in order to educate and amuse. A friend of mine once jokingly mentioned that the Microsoft Paperclip was his childhood friend. I wonder if a far more interesting character would become popular, and provide greater incentive to buy the art program and then to learn it...
One benefit that I am aware of is in one’s thinking. Gods and heroes are at times still targets to aim for. Fresh new ideas spring from the dust of the old. Superstition examined is, with the right teacher, superstition avoided. The teaching of many different points of view helps understand other people’s values. Illustrating a difficult problem with a myth or two assisted me in mathematics and in examining how I view right and wrong (my current obsession with diversity could be blamed on the sheer variety of myths I absorbed).
The second benefit, and one may consistently find even in the absence of good teachers and a clear goal is that it simply provides a much-needed break in between lessons useful for work.
True, but we are the ones creating the AI. I suspect a programmer that only has access to human thinking would leave their mark upon any such machine.
And, since we WANT something that can relate to us, we must test its capacity for human-like behavior.
An AI that can only relate to intelligent fungi from some far-off star would be absolutely useless to us, and would likely find us equally useless. No common ground would mean no need for contact or commerce. At the risk of sounding a lil’ Ferengi, I want a machine intelligence I can do business with.
Why not test its ability to negotiate and trade, as well as to improvise in human behavior? If it can write you a poem for some money, then invest that money in the stock market, and later use the resulting fortune to benefit itself (an upgrade, perhaps?), then you’re probably dealing with an intelligent being, no? Bonus points if it studies other methods of succeeding, and is willing to benefit other intelligent beings.
As a person who had to adjust to life in the United States after moving over from Russia… There are three English phrases that a foreigner must know to learn English quickly, so long as they are willing to LOOK stupid (an important art in a world so obsessed with being serious).
“Where’s the Bathroom?” Apart from its obvious uses, it is is essential to one’s survival to know where one may hide to plot one’s next move. Given the creative responses I sometimes received, I suspect it is also useful for learning profanity.
“I don’t understand.” It is the most useful phrase in the English language. People will generally make an effort to communicate on a number of levels after this is used. Excellent for new words and concepts.
“Please help.” Not all technology will have clear instructions printed on it. Getting lost is also unpleasant when you cannot read the signs. So, asking for help early and often helps one avoid all kinds of trouble (such as accidentally setting a classroom on fire because you don’t know how a Bunsen burner works). Many learning opportunities are missed when one figures something out with no input from a person used to the tech...
Perhaps phrases similar to these exist in every language—by using them, one can learn the rest of the language quickly, if clumsily.
I am reminded of Asimov’s “positronic brain” and how he came up with it. Perhaps the new goal of research in artificial intelligence should be coming up with new magical terms and explaining as little as possible. It could earn enough money and public interest to create an artificial person...
The forms of intelligence I am familiar with (really only one kind, from a materials points of view) are not enough to discuss what is truly necessary for successful AI.
This is yet another reason why a God that answers prayers is far, far crueler than an indifferent Azathoth. Imagine the weight of guilt that must settle on a person if they prayed for the wrong thing and God answered!
On another note, that girl must not be very picky, if God has to destroy a whole city to keep her a virgin...(please don’t blast me for this!)
Hello there, everyone! I am Osiris, and I came here at the request of a friend of mine. I am familiar with Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and spent some time reading through the articles here. Everythin’ here is so interesting! I studied to become a Russian Orthodox Priest in the early nineties, and moved to the USA from the Russian Federation at the beginning of the W. Bush Administration. The change of scenery inspired me, and within the first year, I had become an atheist and learned everything I could about biology, physics, and modern philosophy. Today, I am a philosophy/psychology major at a local college, and work to change the world one little bit at a time.
Though I tend to be a bit of a poet, I hope I can find a place here. In particular, I am interested in thinking of morality and the uses of mythology in daily life.
I value maintaining and increasing diversity, and plan on posting a few things which relate to this as soon as possible. I am curious to see how everyone will react to my style of presentation and beliefs.