Jeez… this was, somehow relatable.
I wonder if autistics in general tend to experience this.
Lavender
Karma: 67
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I’ve always thought saying that babies are atheists is like saying rocks are atheists.
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This triad was missed:
“Muslims are terrorists!” / “Islam is a religion of peace.” / “Religion is problematic in general but Islam is the worst and I can back that claim up with statistics I read on Sam Harris’ blog.”
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You didn’t say anything about technology not having “unwanted health effects” before.
That was supposed to be implied. Allow me to quote Facing The Intelligence Explosion by Luke Muehlhauser:
One day, my friend Niel asked his virtual assistant in India to find him a bike he could buy that day. She sent him a list of bikes for sale from all over the world. Niel said, “No, I need one I can buy in Oxford today; it has to be local.” So she sent him a long list of bikes available in Oxford, most of them expensive. Niel clarified that he wanted an inexpensive bike. So she sent him a list of children’s bikes. He clarified that he needed a local, inexpensive bike that fit an adult male. So she sent him a list of adult bikes in Oxford needing repair. Usually humans understand each other’s desires better than this. Our evolved psychological unity causes us to share a common sense and common desires. Ask me to find you a bike, and I’ll assume you want one in working condition, that fits your size, is not made of gold, etc.—even though you didn’t actually say any of that.
You appear to be acting like that virtual assistant. People’s suggestions can only properly be understood in the context of common sense.
And generally it is considered okay for people to speculate by saying “hey, what if X happens, it might be a good idea” as long as X is possible and the speculator is not asserting X definitely can or will happen. It’s pretty crazy to enforce a rule against speculation and brainstorming. You appear to be reacting as if I’m saying: “hey we will definitely be doing X in the future! There is no reason not to and no reason it could go wrong.”
The difference between speculation and baseless assertion is the difference between making a tentative suggestion in what could happen and making an uninformed suggestion about what will happen.
Are you saying that technology to enhance the appearance of the male body without having unwanted health effects is so implausible that it will never happen? Because over the long term (200-1000 years from now) I prefer to avoid saying “technology X will never happen” unless there’s an actual law of physics that says so. Remember that this is just speculation.
Yeah I know it’s a shitty argument I admit it.
I fully understand what you are trying to say. The problem is that thinking about the issue that way is inproductive. You don’t engage with the actual knowledge we have about making people more fit.
I see. But does this imply that we shouldn’t use transhuman technology to make people more muscular? If we could use such technology, why wouldn’t we?
When I was between the ages of 14 and 20 I was 135 pounds no matter what I ate, and I didn’t watch my diet at all. I imagine I could have gained weight if I “tried hard enough” but it would have involved eating obscene amounts of sugary and fatty foods. We’re talking about an “epic meal time” everyday style diet.
I’m not new to lesswrong. I’m active on the Facebook group and have read most of the sequences.
What makes you believe that’s true? Leaving out people with real disabilities for the sake of the discussion.
My mom is a doctor, and she says genetics are the biggest factor in what people look like. I know that’s not a perfect source but it’s worth something EDIT: Yeah I know that’s a really shitty argument, but it’s not so much an argument as it is a clarification of where I got the idea. But anyway, doesn’t it seem a bit far fetched to say that anybody can become muscular if they just work hard enough? That sound a lot like saying anyone can become rich if they just work hard enough, or anyone can learn calculus if they just study hard enough. In real life people have different levels of natural ability, different privileges and other advantages.
The gym does what you were talking about. It might not have been what you where thinking about.
That’s one possible interpretation of my words. But what I’m intending to refer to. I’m talking about biotechnology / transhuman technology. Try listening to what I’m actually trying to say. The gym is irrelevant to my actual point.
Original comment edited to account for this objection.
The gym is not nearly as powerful as the technology I’m talking about. I’m talking about biotechnology / transhuman technology. Men given the genetic short end of the stick can’t reasonably expect to look fit no matter how much they work out, unless they don’t have a job or any time consuming responsibilities. And no I’m not a jealous fat guy. I’m not athlete, but I’m in decent shape.
And what I’m talking about here is upgrading the average man’s attractiveness so that it’s on par with the average woman’s attractiveness. Nobody complains that all women look the same. In fact women look very diverse. I’m talking about a scenario where men look as diverse as women do.
Also due to supply and demand, there would be an incentive for men to look diverse to match the diversity of women’s desires. A higher supply of Ryan Gosling clones than there is demand for Ryan Gosling clones would create incentives for men to look different from Ryan Gosling.
Are you suggesting that my scenario would make men look fake or make them all look the same? Because if you can’t imagine what I suggested without that happening it implies at least one of two things:
I described it poorly.
You need a better imagination.
I’m an openly trans person in the Rationalist community and I want to go on record here saying:
Writing a 21,000 word essay about how you’ve been suppressing your gender dysphoria since you were a kid and posting it on LessWrong is not a healthy way of addressing your gender dysphoria.
And btw in one of the blog posts Zach links in this post, they call their transgender impulses as “the beautiful feeling at the center of my life.”
This essay has a lot of self-hate in it which is self-destructive and although I respect your Freedom of Speech and Bodily Autonomy I think it would be unwise for anyone to emulate Zach.