Hmm, that gives us some interesting data about the decline of magic. We now know that the power decline included a decline in defensive magic, and this may be the first explicit statement of a type of magic that was capable at some point in the past that the Founders could not use. I’m sure this would be quite useful for Harry.
Also, I think this sort of thing might depend on practice on the size of the nuke by a lot. Some stone buildings in Nagasaki survived relatively intact and are still in use. On the other hand, that bomb had a yield of only around 20 kilotons of TNT. A lot of modern bombs are in the megaton range. So Hogwarts should be able to stand a chance to partially survive a small nuke simply due to the fact that it is a big castle with very thick walls. It shouldn’t take that much magic to make that size nuke completely survivable. So even if Hogwarts can’t survive a direct strike from a megaton weapon, maybe it should be able to survive a small nuke?
Edit: Another thought, if Dumbledore is now worried about the possible use of nukes wouldn’t he try to upgrade the castle’s defenses against specifically that sort of attack? It might be that very ancient powerful structures would survive a nuke because they are just that powerful, but even if that sort of general power doesn’t exist in the modern time, there are still specific anti-nuke strategies that one could do. If for example one had a spell on the Hogwart’s grounds which prevented explosives from detonating that would force a minimum distance for nukes to be used (since nukes need a conventional explosive to make the fission core go critical). One could get around that by having a gun type fission bomb with something other than explosives to launch the bullet (say compressed gas). This would put a severe limit on the maximum yield of the nuke and would mean that no pre-existing nuke would work. Another option would be to have some sort of pre-set transfiguration for the outer walls of the castle, so that if certain events occur the outer walls automatically transfigure into highly durable substances. Harry would probably have other ideas as well. Dumbledore should maybe be asking Harry for advice since Harry is both more creative and has a much better idea in detail what a nuclear detonation requires what the results would be.
One could get around that by having a gun type fission bomb with something other than explosives to launch the bullet (say compressed gas).
You’re making this too complicated. As evidenced by the levitate-slowly-to-the-ground spell, they’ve already got magics in-universe that impede the maximum kinetic energy of an object.
Just surround the entire area with a field that inhibits maximum relative velocities to something an arrow could achieve. No more guns, no more bombs, no more nukes. Problem solved.
I assume that at a certain power level, even magic can’t protect you. Atlantis at full power probably couldn’t defend itself against, say, a gamma ray burst, a black hole pulling the solar system into it’s gravity well, our sun going supernova, or heck, the sun just expanding due to old age.
A spell to protect against incoming shockwaves would probably require vastly more energy than a spell that targeted and halted igniting charges. Although ironically it seems much more muggle thinking to halt a theat with through intricate understanding of the mechanisms than to just pump more power into it.
Atlantis at full power probably couldn’t defend itself against, say, a gamma ray burst, a black hole pulling the solar system into it’s gravity well, our sun going supernova, or heck, the sun just expanding due to old age.
I was just thinking that while the Cloak of Invisibility shouldn’t protect its wearer against nukes—intuitively, nukes can kill you without anyone knowing your precise location—the job shouldn’t require a greater level of magic than it took to make this artifact. And Harry believes he knows an important piece of the spell that made the Cloak.
Let’s see if he got that right, and if he can generalize correctly (using only the new info that Quirrel gave him).
And Harry knew, now, that the concealment of the Cloak was more than the mere transparency of Disillusionment, that the Cloak kept you hidden and not just invisible, as unseeable as were Thestrals to the unknowing. And Harry also knew that it was Thestral blood which painted the symbol of the Deathly Hallows on the inside of the Cloak, binding into the Cloak that portion of Death’s power, enabling the Cloak to confront the Dementors on their own level and block them. It had felt like guessing, and yet a certain guess, the knowledge coming to him in the instant of solving the riddle.
Bellatrix was still transparent within the Cloak, but to Harry she was no longer hidden, he knew that she was there, as obvious to him as a Thestral. For Harry had only loaned his Cloak, not given it; and he had comprehended and mastered the Deathly Hallow that had been passed down through the Potter line.
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you; I thought that you meant that Harry knew how to replicate an important piece of the spell that made the Cloak, not that he understood part of how the Cloak functioned.
...I don’t know what you mean by “important part of the spell” if you exclude secret ingredients, physical motions like drawing a symbol, or the vague-but-intuitive general procedure behind these.
I’m saying “an important piece of the spell” because you used that phrase.
My point is: Harry knows that the Cloak keeps him hidden, not just invisible; this is similar to Thestrals; there’s Thestral blood painted on the inside of the Cloak.
None of that indicates that he knows how to replicate this effect, which is what I thought you meant when you said:
Harry believes he knows an important piece of the spell that made the Cloak.
Yeah, I wrote the grandparent hastily and badly. I felt confused about the difference in interpretation. But it doesn’t seem like an interesting difference; looks like you just took “spell” to mean the effect rather than the cause.
I hope you’d agree that knowing part of the cause should increase the chance of successful replication.
I do agree that knowing part of the cause should increase the chance of successful replication. I just think that there’s still a long way to go. We’re probably both reading more into each others’ posts than we should.
Stopping nukes specifically with magic would be simple. Just gate all the free neutrons in a radius to a hundred miles vertically up. Nuclear bombs might as well be fuelled with toffee.
Hmm, that gives us some interesting data about the decline of magic. We now know that the power decline included a decline in defensive magic, and this may be the first explicit statement of a type of magic that was capable at some point in the past that the Founders could not use. I’m sure this would be quite useful for Harry.
Also, I think this sort of thing might depend on practice on the size of the nuke by a lot. Some stone buildings in Nagasaki survived relatively intact and are still in use. On the other hand, that bomb had a yield of only around 20 kilotons of TNT. A lot of modern bombs are in the megaton range. So Hogwarts should be able to stand a chance to partially survive a small nuke simply due to the fact that it is a big castle with very thick walls. It shouldn’t take that much magic to make that size nuke completely survivable. So even if Hogwarts can’t survive a direct strike from a megaton weapon, maybe it should be able to survive a small nuke?
Edit: Another thought, if Dumbledore is now worried about the possible use of nukes wouldn’t he try to upgrade the castle’s defenses against specifically that sort of attack? It might be that very ancient powerful structures would survive a nuke because they are just that powerful, but even if that sort of general power doesn’t exist in the modern time, there are still specific anti-nuke strategies that one could do. If for example one had a spell on the Hogwart’s grounds which prevented explosives from detonating that would force a minimum distance for nukes to be used (since nukes need a conventional explosive to make the fission core go critical). One could get around that by having a gun type fission bomb with something other than explosives to launch the bullet (say compressed gas). This would put a severe limit on the maximum yield of the nuke and would mean that no pre-existing nuke would work. Another option would be to have some sort of pre-set transfiguration for the outer walls of the castle, so that if certain events occur the outer walls automatically transfigure into highly durable substances. Harry would probably have other ideas as well. Dumbledore should maybe be asking Harry for advice since Harry is both more creative and has a much better idea in detail what a nuclear detonation requires what the results would be.
You’re making this too complicated. As evidenced by the levitate-slowly-to-the-ground spell, they’ve already got magics in-universe that impede the maximum kinetic energy of an object.
Just surround the entire area with a field that inhibits maximum relative velocities to something an arrow could achieve. No more guns, no more bombs, no more nukes. Problem solved.
I assume that at a certain power level, even magic can’t protect you. Atlantis at full power probably couldn’t defend itself against, say, a gamma ray burst, a black hole pulling the solar system into it’s gravity well, our sun going supernova, or heck, the sun just expanding due to old age.
A spell to protect against incoming shockwaves would probably require vastly more energy than a spell that targeted and halted igniting charges. Although ironically it seems much more muggle thinking to halt a theat with through intricate understanding of the mechanisms than to just pump more power into it.
Not to mention whatever it was that destroyed it.
I was just thinking that while the Cloak of Invisibility shouldn’t protect its wearer against nukes—intuitively, nukes can kill you without anyone knowing your precise location—the job shouldn’t require a greater level of magic than it took to make this artifact. And Harry believes he knows an important piece of the spell that made the Cloak.
Let’s see if he got that right, and if he can generalize correctly (using only the new info that Quirrel gave him).
Sorry, where was that stated?
Ch. 56:
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you; I thought that you meant that Harry knew how to replicate an important piece of the spell that made the Cloak, not that he understood part of how the Cloak functioned.
...I don’t know what you mean by “important part of the spell” if you exclude secret ingredients, physical motions like drawing a symbol, or the vague-but-intuitive general procedure behind these.
I’m saying “an important piece of the spell” because you used that phrase.
My point is: Harry knows that the Cloak keeps him hidden, not just invisible; this is similar to Thestrals; there’s Thestral blood painted on the inside of the Cloak.
None of that indicates that he knows how to replicate this effect, which is what I thought you meant when you said:
Yeah, I wrote the grandparent hastily and badly. I felt confused about the difference in interpretation. But it doesn’t seem like an interesting difference; looks like you just took “spell” to mean the effect rather than the cause.
I hope you’d agree that knowing part of the cause should increase the chance of successful replication.
I do agree that knowing part of the cause should increase the chance of successful replication. I just think that there’s still a long way to go. We’re probably both reading more into each others’ posts than we should.
I believe that the implication here is that the cloak’s behavior around Dementors is very similar to some of the behavior of the Patronus 2.0.
Stopping nukes specifically with magic would be simple. Just gate all the free neutrons in a radius to a hundred miles vertically up. Nuclear bombs might as well be fuelled with toffee.
Magic seems to operate on a human level intuitive scale. Doing something just to free neutrons wouldn’t fit that pattern.
So turn the fuel to toffee.
At least one wizard (Harry) can go deeper than the human level, so it might be possible.