This presents a simple two-by-two matrix, with two coherent corners and two incoherent corners. If you think humans are good and the rites are irrelevant, that makes sense; the rites, by moving people from their natural state, make things worse. If you think humans are bad and the rites are relevant, that makes sense: the rites, by moving people towards an ideal state, make things better. But to believe that humans are bad and the rites are irrelevant is fatalism or unreachable standards (what does it mean for humans to be bad if no advice makes them better?), and to believe that humans are good and the rites are relevant is confusion about ‘what goodness is’ or setting the standards too low (what does it mean for humans to be good if the rites are the guide to use whenever they disagree?).
Was this really Xunzi’s argument? I think there’s the germ of a good argument in here, but the incoherencies don’t seem very incoherent at all.
The relevant chapter is called “Human Nature is Bad”, and is mostly focused on the empirical question (or the interpretational question of what it means to be good or bad). It is mostly not an argument “look, you’re Confucian, and so you need to do the Confucian thing”, which would not be very interesting or compelling, but I do think it points towards the coherence of the different parts. If you try to pick and choose elements from the buffet without considering their interactions with each other, you will end up with a worse meal.
Was this really Xunzi’s argument? I think there’s the germ of a good argument in here, but the incoherencies don’t seem very incoherent at all.
The relevant chapter is called “Human Nature is Bad”, and is mostly focused on the empirical question (or the interpretational question of what it means to be good or bad). It is mostly not an argument “look, you’re Confucian, and so you need to do the Confucian thing”, which would not be very interesting or compelling, but I do think it points towards the coherence of the different parts. If you try to pick and choose elements from the buffet without considering their interactions with each other, you will end up with a worse meal.