Having mulled this slightly more… I don’t actually have a very clear idea on what would work here (in the sense of “be memetically successful enough to reach a meaningful number of people.”)
I think there’s a moderately effortful job here of “figure out how to communicate about this in terms the math community will be motivated by and engage with” which can only really be done by someone in the math community.
I’m curious, when you imagine doing “the obvious thing”, what ends up being hard or not working? (presumably there’s a reason you wrote this post targeted at LW users than some other post targeted at math people?)
The “obvious thing” that I have done is state my views on doom to people when it comes up and point them to IABIED, and I think it has largely been successful in causing ~20 people I have personal relationships with to arrive at p(doom) > 5%.
The next “obvious thing” is to scale this up by a factor of 10 to people I’m only vaguely acquainted with, and to write more publicly in a mathematician-facing way as you suggested. These feel both costly, risky, and less effective in ways that the previous thing was not. I am still considering doing it, but need to sit down with my aversions for a while. Some examples: these conversations sometimes require me to be forceful/activist to keep people in my frame instead of sliding off into more comfortable topics, and they plausibly only work because I have significant personal rapport already with a colleague or student.
I would certainly prefer to live in a world where 1 in 20 mathematicians are already awake and I can just create common knowledge that the private conversation thing works, and then not do anything more effortful. As far as I know the only other academic mathematician who writes about Doom is Jacob Tsimerman, who just won the Fields Medal and left to do safety at OpenAI. He would certainly be a person who could do the broadcasting thing (and is doing it already, but in a less forceful way than I’m imagining).
(This is probably not helpful, but just want to note that I’m interested, in a “hobbyist” sense, in the problem of the general kind of confrontation you’re mentioning, under the moniker “confrontation-worthy empathy”; if you happen to want to chat about it I’m interested, e.g. to consider different ideas for making the process more wholesome and similar.)
I would be interested in having this conversation! It seems to me that the kind of confrontation I’m mentioning is a much easier version of the thing you’re pointing to? I tend to just point amateur levels of unconditional positive regard at people and under pre-conditions of existing trust conversations mostly go well. I imagine scaling up the operation requires more finesse, but even so it’s hard to imagine needing the amount of skill you describe there. I’ll message you.
Having mulled this slightly more… I don’t actually have a very clear idea on what would work here (in the sense of “be memetically successful enough to reach a meaningful number of people.”)
I think there’s a moderately effortful job here of “figure out how to communicate about this in terms the math community will be motivated by and engage with” which can only really be done by someone in the math community.
I’m curious, when you imagine doing “the obvious thing”, what ends up being hard or not working? (presumably there’s a reason you wrote this post targeted at LW users than some other post targeted at math people?)
The “obvious thing” that I have done is state my views on doom to people when it comes up and point them to IABIED, and I think it has largely been successful in causing ~20 people I have personal relationships with to arrive at p(doom) > 5%.
The next “obvious thing” is to scale this up by a factor of 10 to people I’m only vaguely acquainted with, and to write more publicly in a mathematician-facing way as you suggested. These feel both costly, risky, and less effective in ways that the previous thing was not. I am still considering doing it, but need to sit down with my aversions for a while. Some examples: these conversations sometimes require me to be forceful/activist to keep people in my frame instead of sliding off into more comfortable topics, and they plausibly only work because I have significant personal rapport already with a colleague or student.
I would certainly prefer to live in a world where 1 in 20 mathematicians are already awake and I can just create common knowledge that the private conversation thing works, and then not do anything more effortful. As far as I know the only other academic mathematician who writes about Doom is Jacob Tsimerman, who just won the Fields Medal and left to do safety at OpenAI. He would certainly be a person who could do the broadcasting thing (and is doing it already, but in a less forceful way than I’m imagining).
(This is probably not helpful, but just want to note that I’m interested, in a “hobbyist” sense, in the problem of the general kind of confrontation you’re mentioning, under the moniker “confrontation-worthy empathy”; if you happen to want to chat about it I’m interested, e.g. to consider different ideas for making the process more wholesome and similar.)
I would be interested in having this conversation! It seems to me that the kind of confrontation I’m mentioning is a much easier version of the thing you’re pointing to? I tend to just point amateur levels of unconditional positive regard at people and under pre-conditions of existing trust conversations mostly go well. I imagine scaling up the operation requires more finesse, but even so it’s hard to imagine needing the amount of skill you describe there. I’ll message you.
Yeah, I think it should be much less hard for people not already embedded in working on AI; just seems kinda related.