I don’t see anything in the quoted passage that suggests that individual neurons do something in their own interest to the detriment of the brain/person. But much more importantly, neurons don’t aim for anything. They’re not, you know, agents.
So this is why I’m objecting: the anthropomorphization is singularly unhelpful in understanding any of this, because whatever the mechanism behind what’s going on, goal-directed intentional behavior is very far from it.
But much more importantly, neurons don’t aim for anything.
You don’t know that.
We don’t know how neurons work. There are huge networks of transcription processes going on every time a neuron fires, and much of it is uncharted. We don’t know the minimum complexity required for goal-oriented behavior and it could well be below the complexity of the processes going on in neurons.
Bacteria can distinguish between different nutrients available around them, and eat the more yummy ones first. Is that not goal-oriented behavior? Neurons are way more complicated than bacteria.
My personal speculation is that neurons have a very simple goal: they attempt to predict the input they’re going to receive next and correlate it with their own output. If they arrive at a model that, based on their own output, predicts their input fairly reliably, they have achieved a measure of control over their neighboring neurons. Of course this means their neighboring neurons also experience more predictability—many things that know each other become one thing that knows itself. So this group of neurons begins to act in a somewhat coordinated fashion, and it does the only thing neurons know how to do, i.e. attempt to predict its surroundings based on its own output. Escalate this up to the macroscopic level, with neuroanatomical complications along the way, and you have goal-orientation in humans, which is the thing Dennett is really trying to explain.
I think choosing nutrients is plausible. I’m much more dubious about neurons trying to predict, but I might be underestimating the computational abilities of cells.
I don’t see anything in the quoted passage that suggests that individual neurons do something in their own interest to the detriment of the brain/person. But much more importantly, neurons don’t aim for anything. They’re not, you know, agents.
So this is why I’m objecting: the anthropomorphization is singularly unhelpful in understanding any of this, because whatever the mechanism behind what’s going on, goal-directed intentional behavior is very far from it.
You don’t know that.
We don’t know how neurons work. There are huge networks of transcription processes going on every time a neuron fires, and much of it is uncharted. We don’t know the minimum complexity required for goal-oriented behavior and it could well be below the complexity of the processes going on in neurons.
Bacteria can distinguish between different nutrients available around them, and eat the more yummy ones first. Is that not goal-oriented behavior? Neurons are way more complicated than bacteria.
My personal speculation is that neurons have a very simple goal: they attempt to predict the input they’re going to receive next and correlate it with their own output. If they arrive at a model that, based on their own output, predicts their input fairly reliably, they have achieved a measure of control over their neighboring neurons. Of course this means their neighboring neurons also experience more predictability—many things that know each other become one thing that knows itself. So this group of neurons begins to act in a somewhat coordinated fashion, and it does the only thing neurons know how to do, i.e. attempt to predict its surroundings based on its own output. Escalate this up to the macroscopic level, with neuroanatomical complications along the way, and you have goal-orientation in humans, which is the thing Dennett is really trying to explain.
I think choosing nutrients is plausible. I’m much more dubious about neurons trying to predict, but I might be underestimating the computational abilities of cells.
Okay. Now according to you, is choosing nutrients goal-oriented behavior?