If you are an acoholic isn’t that more of a problem with impulsiveness and pointing to exec function deficits(if anything?). You can look into that. I would REALLY look into this if I were you.
I don’t understand exactly, care to elaborate? My point was precisely to identify with the impulsive part of the self, and externalize the rational part as The Boss.
Also, alcoholic is probably too much of an umbrella term. People have different poor habits wrt alcohol. I have looked into the AA book and could not relate, for I was never really drunk. The AA book described people who would go being drunk literally for days which I could not relate to like at all—even at big parties, where everybody is sloshed, I kind of get angry at myself when my speech gets a bit slurred or my thoughts slowed, I don’t like that. And that makes an usual alcoholic. I also find it weird that I very easily switch to non-A beer. Part of my bad habit is more about really liking beer than really liking alcohol and it is just too bad I did not discover this connection earlier. I have also starting to suspect that me usually feeling bored is a slight schizoid orientation. This could explain the liking to get tipsy but not drunk part, as the tipsy part tends to lift the boredom and makes it easy to find joy in small things. Like laugh at jokes.
I think you could probably benefit from AA. At the very least you should consider quitting drinking all together.
Your posts are a little inconsistent (I don’t get drunk vs I’m bored, let’s get drunk! and I drink because I like the taste vs I drink crappy tasting cheap beer), but it sounds like you’re pretty depressed and use alcohol to cope with that. I think you would benefit from quitting drinking entirely and I’ve found for myself that AA helps with that. The the only necessary requirement for AA membership is the desire to quit drinking.
A lot of the literature of AA was written 80 years ago and reflects a societal aspect of drinking that may not apply to you. The purpose of AA isn’t to help a certain “type” of drunk, it’s to support someone who doesn’t want to drink anymore. There’s certainly criticisms of the program, both in its effectiveness and it’s religiousity. But I’m an atheist, drank from ages 17-39 but wasn’t a “drunk” and I quit last summer and I’ve discovered a few things:
-I am better at life when I don’t drink. I am better at being a dad, a husband, a friend,etc.
-I have to abstain completely...I cannot reliably control my drinking
-I’m a lot happier when I go to AA meetings at least once a week
-N/A beer sucks. It’s no comparison!
In addition to the not drinking part (strongly correlated with happiness), AA has some of the elements that make religion correlate with happiness. There’s ritual, fellowship, and shared experience.
A lot of people benefit from AA, the issue with the costs, such as having to admit stuff you don’t like to admit, making you feel bad and powerless and so on. A ritual, a fellowship of losers rubs me entirely the bad way. Perhaps it works for people who feel like they are amazing and need their ego cut down, but I far more often feel like a worthles POS so a fellowship that rubs precisely that in does not sound attractive. I have more than enough self-esteem problems, if anything, I need the opposite, a winner’s fellowship (Toastmasters or our local martial arts club). If I saw no other ways I would pay that cost, but since a 30 days stoppage worked well, I think I can try longer ones, eventually a full one, without many problems. In fact the 3 weeks rule (there is a “folk knowleddge” saying it takes 3 weeks to ingrain or delete a habit, such as it took us 3 weeks to not smoke inside our flat to get to the point where doing it would feel positively weird) worked, after 3 weeks I did not even think of it, and only the frustration of the illness brought it back. From this experience, I can easily imagine being completely abstinent as a general rule, when things are good, and turning to drink when something bad happens, say on the average 3-5 weeks a year. That would not be a particularly unhealthy way to live?
A lot of people benefit from AA, the issue with the costs, such as having to admit stuff you don’t like to admit, making you feel bad and powerless and so on.
My understanding is that those “costs” are why it works, e.g., you aren’t going to solve your problem without admitting to things you’d rather not admit to.
I agree with westward that it sounds like you often drink to deal with depression, even if you have things to be happy about and are happy about them at times.
It’s tough to notice; it’s crazy what you can not notice. I was making a list of stressors in my life a few months ago so that I would be able to recognize them explicitly and take steps to reduce them if possible, and I came up with a lot of stuff, some that I crossed off because I couldn’t do anything about it, and some that I took steps to alleviate. But something I noticed around the time that I was almost finished with the list was, I had completely missed my two biggest stressors. I couldn’t do anything about them, but that wasn’t the point; the point was to think of everything that was stressing me, and my brain outright censored the two things that would be most obvious to any outside observer.
Besides the sources being difficult to notice, there’s also the feelings themselves. I always thought that being bored and weak-willed all of the time was the norm, that it was something you just had to deal with all of the time. I unintentionally tuned them out like so many chirping crickets. Then I took some steps that I remembered have been shown to reduce depression, like exercise, exposure to light (sunlight in my case), and thinking that that stuff would work (placebo effect), and I felt better, and things were easier, and I wasn’t quite as bored. I imagine you felt something like that when you were doing your martial arts. If it’s an option, maybe you could see a doctor, if you trust that; that way you don’t have to do as much guesswork. I’m pretty sure I would if it were a financial option. I have a long family history of mental illness and substance abuse and it wouldn’t surprise me if I could use some medication. I remember Kaj_Sotala saying that he started taking antidepressants somewhat recently and that they helped him and I think I also remember him making similar comments on how easy it is for depression to go unnoticed when it’s been the status quo for so long. But I don’t know you and I’m no doctor, so do what really feels right.
Also, maybe you’d like Jonah_Sinick’s post Methods for treating depression, which is self-explanatory, and Alicorn’s post Ureshiku Naritai, which is basically about getting happier, and see if those things make things easier, especially when you’re tempted to drink.
If you are an acoholic isn’t that more of a problem with impulsiveness and pointing to exec function deficits(if anything?). You can look into that. I would REALLY look into this if I were you.
I don’t understand exactly, care to elaborate? My point was precisely to identify with the impulsive part of the self, and externalize the rational part as The Boss.
Also, alcoholic is probably too much of an umbrella term. People have different poor habits wrt alcohol. I have looked into the AA book and could not relate, for I was never really drunk. The AA book described people who would go being drunk literally for days which I could not relate to like at all—even at big parties, where everybody is sloshed, I kind of get angry at myself when my speech gets a bit slurred or my thoughts slowed, I don’t like that. And that makes an usual alcoholic. I also find it weird that I very easily switch to non-A beer. Part of my bad habit is more about really liking beer than really liking alcohol and it is just too bad I did not discover this connection earlier. I have also starting to suspect that me usually feeling bored is a slight schizoid orientation. This could explain the liking to get tipsy but not drunk part, as the tipsy part tends to lift the boredom and makes it easy to find joy in small things. Like laugh at jokes.
I think you could probably benefit from AA. At the very least you should consider quitting drinking all together.
Your posts are a little inconsistent (I don’t get drunk vs I’m bored, let’s get drunk! and I drink because I like the taste vs I drink crappy tasting cheap beer), but it sounds like you’re pretty depressed and use alcohol to cope with that. I think you would benefit from quitting drinking entirely and I’ve found for myself that AA helps with that. The the only necessary requirement for AA membership is the desire to quit drinking.
A lot of the literature of AA was written 80 years ago and reflects a societal aspect of drinking that may not apply to you. The purpose of AA isn’t to help a certain “type” of drunk, it’s to support someone who doesn’t want to drink anymore. There’s certainly criticisms of the program, both in its effectiveness and it’s religiousity. But I’m an atheist, drank from ages 17-39 but wasn’t a “drunk” and I quit last summer and I’ve discovered a few things: -I am better at life when I don’t drink. I am better at being a dad, a husband, a friend,etc. -I have to abstain completely...I cannot reliably control my drinking -I’m a lot happier when I go to AA meetings at least once a week -N/A beer sucks. It’s no comparison!
In addition to the not drinking part (strongly correlated with happiness), AA has some of the elements that make religion correlate with happiness. There’s ritual, fellowship, and shared experience.
A lot of people benefit from AA, the issue with the costs, such as having to admit stuff you don’t like to admit, making you feel bad and powerless and so on. A ritual, a fellowship of losers rubs me entirely the bad way. Perhaps it works for people who feel like they are amazing and need their ego cut down, but I far more often feel like a worthles POS so a fellowship that rubs precisely that in does not sound attractive. I have more than enough self-esteem problems, if anything, I need the opposite, a winner’s fellowship (Toastmasters or our local martial arts club). If I saw no other ways I would pay that cost, but since a 30 days stoppage worked well, I think I can try longer ones, eventually a full one, without many problems. In fact the 3 weeks rule (there is a “folk knowleddge” saying it takes 3 weeks to ingrain or delete a habit, such as it took us 3 weeks to not smoke inside our flat to get to the point where doing it would feel positively weird) worked, after 3 weeks I did not even think of it, and only the frustration of the illness brought it back. From this experience, I can easily imagine being completely abstinent as a general rule, when things are good, and turning to drink when something bad happens, say on the average 3-5 weeks a year. That would not be a particularly unhealthy way to live?
My understanding is that those “costs” are why it works, e.g., you aren’t going to solve your problem without admitting to things you’d rather not admit to.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever technique you try to be happier.
I agree with westward that it sounds like you often drink to deal with depression, even if you have things to be happy about and are happy about them at times.
It’s tough to notice; it’s crazy what you can not notice. I was making a list of stressors in my life a few months ago so that I would be able to recognize them explicitly and take steps to reduce them if possible, and I came up with a lot of stuff, some that I crossed off because I couldn’t do anything about it, and some that I took steps to alleviate. But something I noticed around the time that I was almost finished with the list was, I had completely missed my two biggest stressors. I couldn’t do anything about them, but that wasn’t the point; the point was to think of everything that was stressing me, and my brain outright censored the two things that would be most obvious to any outside observer.
Besides the sources being difficult to notice, there’s also the feelings themselves. I always thought that being bored and weak-willed all of the time was the norm, that it was something you just had to deal with all of the time. I unintentionally tuned them out like so many chirping crickets. Then I took some steps that I remembered have been shown to reduce depression, like exercise, exposure to light (sunlight in my case), and thinking that that stuff would work (placebo effect), and I felt better, and things were easier, and I wasn’t quite as bored. I imagine you felt something like that when you were doing your martial arts. If it’s an option, maybe you could see a doctor, if you trust that; that way you don’t have to do as much guesswork. I’m pretty sure I would if it were a financial option. I have a long family history of mental illness and substance abuse and it wouldn’t surprise me if I could use some medication. I remember Kaj_Sotala saying that he started taking antidepressants somewhat recently and that they helped him and I think I also remember him making similar comments on how easy it is for depression to go unnoticed when it’s been the status quo for so long. But I don’t know you and I’m no doctor, so do what really feels right.
Also, maybe you’d like Jonah_Sinick’s post Methods for treating depression, which is self-explanatory, and Alicorn’s post Ureshiku Naritai, which is basically about getting happier, and see if those things make things easier, especially when you’re tempted to drink.