is still very problematic to a modern view of gender,
What does this have to do with it being or not being true?
And more importantly, why do you believe that most people—especially in a traditional society—even care to apply logic and reflection when thinking about sex?
You seam to be conflating the progressive/traditional distinction intellectual/popular distinction. There were a lot of smart people in the past (who would today be considered traditional) who thought about these things.
So many other popular beliefs (on drugs, religion, etc) both then and now are full of cached thoughts, inherited memes etc. and lack rigorous reflection!
This is equally true in non-traditional societies.
What does this have to do with it being or not being true?
It’s a response to the charge of me intentionally picking the more strawman-like answer.
This is equally true in non-traditional societies.
Sure, but in traditional societies reflection on sacred matters is officially discouraged, whereas in modern ones there’s just the silent pressure to come to the approved conclusion—but many still decide not to! There are more patriarchally oriented people now in the 1st world than there were liberal people in the past.
If neither position is obviously insane and they just stem from different moral instincts, then there must be slightly more freedom of thought today along these axes.
That some didn’t stop Christian theologians from doing an awful lot of reflection on sacred matters.
The sacred is a territory that a caste claims for themselves. The edict is about preventing outsiders from impinging on their turf, not one of preventing all from doing the reflection.
What does this have to do with it being or not being true?
You seam to be conflating the progressive/traditional distinction intellectual/popular distinction. There were a lot of smart people in the past (who would today be considered traditional) who thought about these things.
This is equally true in non-traditional societies.
It’s a response to the charge of me intentionally picking the more strawman-like answer.
Sure, but in traditional societies reflection on sacred matters is officially discouraged, whereas in modern ones there’s just the silent pressure to come to the approved conclusion—but many still decide not to! There are more patriarchally oriented people now in the 1st world than there were liberal people in the past.
If neither position is obviously insane and they just stem from different moral instincts, then there must be slightly more freedom of thought today along these axes.
That some didn’t stop Christian theologians from doing an awful lot of reflection on sacred matters.
The sacred is a territory that a caste claims for themselves. The edict is about preventing outsiders from impinging on their turf, not one of preventing all from doing the reflection.
Modern scientists tend to take a similar attitude to outsiders who impinge on their turf.
Exactly what I was thinking of as I wrote the comment. Scientists and Doctors are certainly priestly castes.
But here the Pope is predicting how the “people” would react, presumably applying his cynicism and savvy.
My point is that over time the Church has acquired a decent working model of how humans behave in large groups.