One comment I would make about this is that your phrasing sounds like you (Svyatoslav) have some conclusions you have drawn that disagree with current consensus. I suspect I would agree with them but one that I want to point out is that heroin almost always shortens lives dramatically more than it improves happiness, and it’s not clear that people’s reflective agency actually even values the state of being high on heroin until they have tried it. That’s an old debate in drug impacts—which ones are manipulations of your values and which ones are not? I would propose that most people who deeply understand the brain states different drugs induce can have intelligent opinions about whether they will value them ahead of time, and I would further propose it likely that very few people would actually value a life spent on heroin ahead of time, whereas a life spent on a small amount of LSD would probably in my estimate be harder and in today’s society more prone to failure, but maybe it would be more fun, if very carefully managed to a degree I wouldn’t expect from someone who actually chose to do it.
I think we will come up with dramatically better drugs over the course of the next decades and it might be preferable to wait for those, because our understanding of neurons is going to skyrocket as we become able to very precisely model cells with advanced machine learning biology. It might be worth waiting even if you (15 year old dude who is excited about a new insight) like the idea of some of these drugs; In the meantime you can get similarly fun experiences by getting an artificial neural network high (change the sampling settings, for instance), and because artificial neural networks will not be damaged permanently by this the way some drugs might damage a human (according to their own preferences) in non-obvious ways, you can have more fun with them anyway.
that said, I personally want to try psychedelics at some point, not very many times, safely, in a well configured environment, with people there I trust, in a place where it’s legal, from a reputable supplier, with advice from my future ai doctor on how to avoid risks.
I must say I am quite taken aback by the condescending tone of your comment (suggesting that I am 15 years old etc).
But since you’ve got some upvotes I wonder if disagreement “with the current consensus” indeed was implied by my phrasing. In case it needs clarification, obviously, I suggest that nobody tries heroin. And even though this question seems much easier to answer, it was listed by the OP and so it would be helpful if he could first answer it himself.
UPD In case you’re interested in my stance on the above substances, it’s this:
-- Heroin is quite harmful.
-- Amphetamines are sometimes useful as prescription drugs, but I wouldn’t recommend them otherwise.
-- I strongly encourage any adult to have LSD at least once, but with great care for the setting and risk-factors, such as relatives with schizophrenia etc.
But my stance is not the point. It’s up to the OP to find his.
I think you have misunderstood something the gears to ascenscion wrote. In this sentence:
It might be worth waiting even if you (15 year old dude who is excited about a new insight) like the idea of some of these drugs
the word “you”, I think, doesn’t mean “you, the reader, reading this paragraph right now”, it means “anyone”, and in particular is gesturing toward OP’s 15-year-old son who reads LW and is keen to try a bunch of drugs.
(This use of “you” in colloquial English is rather strange. I don’t know whether any other languages do the same thing.)
[Edit: my core response to this: agreed!]
One comment I would make about this is that your phrasing sounds like you (Svyatoslav) have some conclusions you have drawn that disagree with current consensus. I suspect I would agree with them but one that I want to point out is that heroin almost always shortens lives dramatically more than it improves happiness, and it’s not clear that people’s reflective agency actually even values the state of being high on heroin until they have tried it. That’s an old debate in drug impacts—which ones are manipulations of your values and which ones are not? I would propose that most people who deeply understand the brain states different drugs induce can have intelligent opinions about whether they will value them ahead of time, and I would further propose it likely that very few people would actually value a life spent on heroin ahead of time, whereas a life spent on a small amount of LSD would probably in my estimate be harder and in today’s society more prone to failure, but maybe it would be more fun, if very carefully managed to a degree I wouldn’t expect from someone who actually chose to do it.
I think we will come up with dramatically better drugs over the course of the next decades and it might be preferable to wait for those, because our understanding of neurons is going to skyrocket as we become able to very precisely model cells with advanced machine learning biology. It might be worth waiting even if you (15 year old dude who is excited about a new insight) like the idea of some of these drugs; In the meantime you can get similarly fun experiences by getting an artificial neural network high (change the sampling settings, for instance), and because artificial neural networks will not be damaged permanently by this the way some drugs might damage a human (according to their own preferences) in non-obvious ways, you can have more fun with them anyway.
that said, I personally want to try psychedelics at some point, not very many times, safely, in a well configured environment, with people there I trust, in a place where it’s legal, from a reputable supplier, with advice from my future ai doctor on how to avoid risks.
I must say I am quite taken aback by the condescending tone of your comment (suggesting that I am 15 years old etc).
But since you’ve got some upvotes I wonder if disagreement “with the current consensus” indeed was implied by my phrasing. In case it needs clarification, obviously, I suggest that nobody tries heroin. And even though this question seems much easier to answer, it was listed by the OP and so it would be helpful if he could first answer it himself.
UPD In case you’re interested in my stance on the above substances, it’s this:
-- Heroin is quite harmful.
-- Amphetamines are sometimes useful as prescription drugs, but I wouldn’t recommend them otherwise.
-- I strongly encourage any adult to have LSD at least once, but with great care for the setting and risk-factors, such as relatives with schizophrenia etc.
But my stance is not the point. It’s up to the OP to find his.
err, quite the opposite. you (svyatoslav) is not the same person as you (15 year old person). that was the entire point of separating the references!
I think you have misunderstood something the gears to ascenscion wrote. In this sentence:
the word “you”, I think, doesn’t mean “you, the reader, reading this paragraph right now”, it means “anyone”, and in particular is gesturing toward OP’s 15-year-old son who reads LW and is keen to try a bunch of drugs.
(This use of “you” in colloquial English is rather strange. I don’t know whether any other languages do the same thing.)
close but nope I meant each “you” to refer to exactly one person, and a different one each time.