If my preferences were such that I valued eating babies then it would be rational for me to eat babies. Rational is not nice, good, altruistic or self sacrificial. It just is.
Well, you’re right that rationality is just a system for achieving a goal; it is the same process regardless of whether that goal is making the world a better place or turning it into a desert wasteland.
But, the OP is asking us to use rationality in a practical way and report back. That means we have to pick a goal, or there’s nothing to point our rationality at. Making the world a better place for the people living in it (or to use a more utilitarian phrasing, reducing the net amount of potential and actual suffering in the world) seems like a pretty good one. It matches my own personal goals, at any rate.
Therefore: if you don’t think the specific steps outlined in the OP are optimal for achieving that goal, please describe your alternative! I’m not being sarcastic; to use the chant, if the OP’s steps are effective, I want to believe they’re effective, and if they’re not, I want to believe they’re not.
But, please don’t confuse that practical matter with the issue of choosing a goal; that argument is outside the bounds of rationality (except for the specific case of trying to justify one value as a sub-goal of another one).
But, the OP is asking us to use rationality in a practical way and report back. That means we have to pick a goal, or there’s nothing to point our rationality at. Making the world a better place for the people living in it (or to use a more utilitarian phrasing, reducing the net amount of potential and actual suffering in the world) seems like a pretty good one. It matches my own personal goals, at any rate.
Absolutely. What did Eliezer call this “must have a goal” principle way back when in the sequences? He explained it well, whatever it was.
What my point is is that none of the the actions listed are an effective way of achieving anything. Neither of the two purposes of altruistic actions are served (that being signalling and actually changing the world to match altruistic preferences.)
What my point is is that none of the the actions listed are an effective way of achieving anything. Neither of the two purposes of altruistic actions are served (that being signalling and actually changing the world to match altruistic preferences.)
(For this response I’m going to focus on the goal of improving the world, not on signalling.)
One of the options was to give blood, which contributes directly to the reduction of suffering. I admit that I haven’t personally looked into the effectiveness of the blood donation system, but as a basic medical technology it’s quite sound, right? Why do you feel that donating blood is ineffective?
Two of the options were about donating to charities; one to a specific charity that seeks to defend a college student falsely accused of murder, and another a more general request to donate to any “reputable charity”. I can understand that you might reasonably default to the null hypothesis on evaluating the effectiveness of any particular charity, particularly a minor one with little reputation like the Amanda Knox Defense charity… but it’s a much stronger statement that reputable charities in general are not “an effective way of achieving anything”! Could you describe in more detail what leads you to that conclusion?
Finally, the remaining two options were about letter-writing or otherwise contacting people with political power in the hopes of influencing their actions. In terms of cost vs. benefit, this strikes me as being very hard to attack. Communication is cheap and easy, and public approval is a major factor in most political systems. By telling politicians explicitly what will earn your approval or disapproval, you’re taking advantage of this system. I like the description here of this idea.
Do you disagree and feel that communicating with politicians is an ineffective way of influencing their decisions? If so, do you have a more effective alternative to propose?
Well, you’re right that rationality is just a system for achieving a goal; it is the same process regardless of whether that goal is making the world a better place or turning it into a desert wasteland.
But, the OP is asking us to use rationality in a practical way and report back. That means we have to pick a goal, or there’s nothing to point our rationality at. Making the world a better place for the people living in it (or to use a more utilitarian phrasing, reducing the net amount of potential and actual suffering in the world) seems like a pretty good one. It matches my own personal goals, at any rate.
Therefore: if you don’t think the specific steps outlined in the OP are optimal for achieving that goal, please describe your alternative! I’m not being sarcastic; to use the chant, if the OP’s steps are effective, I want to believe they’re effective, and if they’re not, I want to believe they’re not.
But, please don’t confuse that practical matter with the issue of choosing a goal; that argument is outside the bounds of rationality (except for the specific case of trying to justify one value as a sub-goal of another one).
Absolutely. What did Eliezer call this “must have a goal” principle way back when in the sequences? He explained it well, whatever it was.
What my point is is that none of the the actions listed are an effective way of achieving anything. Neither of the two purposes of altruistic actions are served (that being signalling and actually changing the world to match altruistic preferences.)
Something to Protect?
That’s the one, thanks guys. Time for me to do some revision.
(For this response I’m going to focus on the goal of improving the world, not on signalling.)
One of the options was to give blood, which contributes directly to the reduction of suffering. I admit that I haven’t personally looked into the effectiveness of the blood donation system, but as a basic medical technology it’s quite sound, right? Why do you feel that donating blood is ineffective?
Two of the options were about donating to charities; one to a specific charity that seeks to defend a college student falsely accused of murder, and another a more general request to donate to any “reputable charity”. I can understand that you might reasonably default to the null hypothesis on evaluating the effectiveness of any particular charity, particularly a minor one with little reputation like the Amanda Knox Defense charity… but it’s a much stronger statement that reputable charities in general are not “an effective way of achieving anything”! Could you describe in more detail what leads you to that conclusion?
Finally, the remaining two options were about letter-writing or otherwise contacting people with political power in the hopes of influencing their actions. In terms of cost vs. benefit, this strikes me as being very hard to attack. Communication is cheap and easy, and public approval is a major factor in most political systems. By telling politicians explicitly what will earn your approval or disapproval, you’re taking advantage of this system. I like the description here of this idea.
Do you disagree and feel that communicating with politicians is an ineffective way of influencing their decisions? If so, do you have a more effective alternative to propose?
Something to Protect?