When probed via fMRI the scientists found Mingyur’s circuitry for empathy activated stronger than they had ever observed in normal people―a level normally associated with brief seizures lasting mere seconds.
It’s kind of surprising to me that the yogis had such high empathy signals when they encounter almost no humans with whom to be empathic. This makes me wonder if the problem with meditating in civilization is that we keep encountering the kind of jerk that really strains our abilities.
Also, would you be willing to describe how you arrived at your current meditation practice?
This makes me wonder if the problem with meditating in civilization is that we keep encountering the kind of jerk that really strains our abilities.
There was a fun anecdote about that in the book:
In India they tell of a yogi who spent years and years alone in a cave, achieving rarefied states of samadhi. One day, satisfied that he had reached the end of his inner journey, the yogi came down from his mountain perch into a village.
That day the bazaar was crowded. As he made his way through the crowd, the yogi was caught up in a rush to make way for a local lord riding through on an elephant. A young boy standing in front of the yogi stepped back suddenly in fright—stomping right on the yogi’s bare foot.
The yogi, angered and in pain, raised his walking staff to strike the youngster. But suddenly seeing what he was about to do—and the anger that propelled his arm—the yogi turned around and went right back up to his cave for more practice.
A young boy standing in front of the yogi stepped back suddenly in fright—stomping right on the yogi’s bare foot. The yogi, angered and in pain, raised his walking staff to strike the youngster.
What did he do all those years? Seems a bit absurd to me.
I guess he went back into the cave because he thought he didn’t meditate enough because he wanted to hit that dude after he accidentally stepped on his foot? What was he like before he started meditating? How does meditation help him solve the problem of wanting to hit someone because they accidentally stepped on his foot?
How does meditation help him solve the problem of wanting to hit someone because they accidentally stepped on his foot?
The story is vague on the exact meditative practices he was pursuing, but e.g. some styles allow you to create more distance between an emotion and the response to it, so you might for instance feel the anger but also make the choice to not raise your staff in response.
The reference to samadhi sounds like he was mostly pursuing concentration meditation, which can also help you maintain pleasant states of mind and prevent emotions such as anger from arising. Though practicing it without a chance to expose yourself to triggers and learn to deal specifically with them may end up being relatively ineffective for the purpose getting less emotionally triggered—as the story illustrates.
Yes I think exposure to triggers are very important in validating progress, just like how real skill level is measured by real work produced. That’s why I don’t really have much of a problem with the methodology employed. Triggers work both ways though if you are open-minded about who’s teaching who. You can trigger me but I can’t trigger you is bit of hypocrisy though. I don’t really mind the one-sided dynamic. All I can say is good luck for the next decades and centuries.
The empathetic part probably comes from disconnecting oneself from personal human interactons that allow you to see people in a different light rather than how we see them when we interact with them. You are looking at the human society from the outside rather than how others affect your own interactions with them. It’s a form of detachment that allows you to stop being emotionally invested in your interactions and opinions on fellow human beings. When you aren’t emotionally invested, it’s not difficult to see people as mere animals with their own human conditions and tendencies. You are able to liken others to yourself whereas in normal social interactions or mindset we think of others as completely independent agents with their own autonomous agencies. If they win over a girl, that means you aren’t able to be with that girl. The guy is seen as an adversary who takes away your resource for happiness, the girl. Looking from the outside allows you to realize that that dude is just like you, looking for a girl being a source of happiness. That’s where the empathy comes from, realizing we are more or less the same and share more or less the same thoughts and going about our days in more or less the same ways.
When you aren’t personally involved in some drama, it’s a lot easier to see just how silly it is.
It’s kind of surprising to me that the yogis had such high empathy signals when they encounter almost no humans with whom to be empathic. This makes me wonder if the problem with meditating in civilization is that we keep encountering the kind of jerk that really strains our abilities.
Also, would you be willing to describe how you arrived at your current meditation practice?
There was a fun anecdote about that in the book:
What did he do all those years? Seems a bit absurd to me.
Meditate, apparently (“samadhi” is a state of concentration achieved through meditation).
I guess he went back into the cave because he thought he didn’t meditate enough because he wanted to hit that dude after he accidentally stepped on his foot? What was he like before he started meditating? How does meditation help him solve the problem of wanting to hit someone because they accidentally stepped on his foot?
The story is vague on the exact meditative practices he was pursuing, but e.g. some styles allow you to create more distance between an emotion and the response to it, so you might for instance feel the anger but also make the choice to not raise your staff in response.
The reference to samadhi sounds like he was mostly pursuing concentration meditation, which can also help you maintain pleasant states of mind and prevent emotions such as anger from arising. Though practicing it without a chance to expose yourself to triggers and learn to deal specifically with them may end up being relatively ineffective for the purpose getting less emotionally triggered—as the story illustrates.
Yes I think exposure to triggers are very important in validating progress, just like how real skill level is measured by real work produced. That’s why I don’t really have much of a problem with the methodology employed. Triggers work both ways though if you are open-minded about who’s teaching who. You can trigger me but I can’t trigger you is bit of hypocrisy though. I don’t really mind the one-sided dynamic. All I can say is good luck for the next decades and centuries.
I think the reason you leave society to remove distractions.
How I got to my current practice is a long story. I may write about it elsewhere but a comment is not the right place for the story.
The empathetic part probably comes from disconnecting oneself from personal human interactons that allow you to see people in a different light rather than how we see them when we interact with them. You are looking at the human society from the outside rather than how others affect your own interactions with them. It’s a form of detachment that allows you to stop being emotionally invested in your interactions and opinions on fellow human beings. When you aren’t emotionally invested, it’s not difficult to see people as mere animals with their own human conditions and tendencies. You are able to liken others to yourself whereas in normal social interactions or mindset we think of others as completely independent agents with their own autonomous agencies. If they win over a girl, that means you aren’t able to be with that girl. The guy is seen as an adversary who takes away your resource for happiness, the girl. Looking from the outside allows you to realize that that dude is just like you, looking for a girl being a source of happiness. That’s where the empathy comes from, realizing we are more or less the same and share more or less the same thoughts and going about our days in more or less the same ways.
When you aren’t personally involved in some drama, it’s a lot easier to see just how silly it is.