I struggle a lot with the arguments for suffering and ethical treatment of animals. I come from a farming region.
Wild animals almost all die horribly. Freezing to death, starving, succumbing to parasites or disease with long periods of suffering and for the most part all being ripped apart by predators. By contrast the lives of factory farmed animals are incredibly gentle and easy, with almost no suffering, and their deaths are about as low in suffering as is possible to arrange. Claims that those lives are somehow better than domesticated are arbitrary romantic human values applied in a way that I don’t think have much merit. Domesticated animals do not share human values.
We have been breeding domestic animals for millennia to thrive in captivity, their psychology has been dramatically changed because we have been culling off those that reacted badly to captivity for thousands of generations—aggressive or badly behaving animals would always be first for the pot. Happy and content animals that are not stressed are most productive, so that is what farming and domesticated animal psychology have been effectively selecting for—extreme unthinking docility and contentment. They are far removed from wild animals—just as dogs are not wolves.
So when we try and impose our notions of what domesticated animals want—outdoors etc, you will find in most cases you are wrong. They just want sheltered space with steady supplies of food, not caring about crowding that 1000′s of generations of their domesticated ancestors have lived with quite happily. and will often not use outdoor spaces (or use them only minimally) even if they are provided. Evolution strongly favors animals that don’t waste energy, so when fed sufficiently laziness is the default.
So I place very little stock in the claims of suffering for farmed animals, or that living wild is somehow better. Almost certainly the animals in question prefer the comfort of domesticated farming environments and lives.
By contrast the lives of factory farmed animals are incredibly gentle and easy, with almost no suffering
I find this believable for cows, but not chickens.
We have been breeding domestic animals for millennia to thrive in captivity
As I understand it, factory farming conditions in the past 100-200 years are very different to what farmed animals experienced prior to that. If people in 1700 had tried raising chickens in conditions we raise them in today, the chickens would have died of disease and vitamin deficiencies.
So sure, farmed chickens are probably very different from the wild chickens they’re descended from. But farmed chickens aren’t raised in the conditions we’ve been breeding them in for millennia.
I’m sure you treat your animals well. There’s a weird power law thing where the majority of meat comes from very few companies with massive scale. It could both be the case that most farmers treat their animals well and most meat comes from tortured animals. most farmers do not produce most meat.
Curious to hear more about your experience. The post new-deal demand-planning stuff like paying farmers to produce less—is this a thing that actually happens? How much do you think welfare concerns will hurt farmer productivity? Do you see a path forward for farmers to make more money while also treating animals better, perhaps by producing higher-quality agriculture as Japan has done?
I struggle a lot with the arguments for suffering and ethical treatment of animals. I come from a farming region.
Wild animals almost all die horribly. Freezing to death, starving, succumbing to parasites or disease with long periods of suffering and for the most part all being ripped apart by predators. By contrast the lives of factory farmed animals are incredibly gentle and easy, with almost no suffering, and their deaths are about as low in suffering as is possible to arrange. Claims that those lives are somehow better than domesticated are arbitrary romantic human values applied in a way that I don’t think have much merit. Domesticated animals do not share human values.
We have been breeding domestic animals for millennia to thrive in captivity, their psychology has been dramatically changed because we have been culling off those that reacted badly to captivity for thousands of generations—aggressive or badly behaving animals would always be first for the pot. Happy and content animals that are not stressed are most productive, so that is what farming and domesticated animal psychology have been effectively selecting for—extreme unthinking docility and contentment. They are far removed from wild animals—just as dogs are not wolves.
So when we try and impose our notions of what domesticated animals want—outdoors etc, you will find in most cases you are wrong. They just want sheltered space with steady supplies of food, not caring about crowding that 1000′s of generations of their domesticated ancestors have lived with quite happily. and will often not use outdoor spaces (or use them only minimally) even if they are provided. Evolution strongly favors animals that don’t waste energy, so when fed sufficiently laziness is the default.
So I place very little stock in the claims of suffering for farmed animals, or that living wild is somehow better. Almost certainly the animals in question prefer the comfort of domesticated farming environments and lives.
I find this believable for cows, but not chickens.
As I understand it, factory farming conditions in the past 100-200 years are very different to what farmed animals experienced prior to that. If people in 1700 had tried raising chickens in conditions we raise them in today, the chickens would have died of disease and vitamin deficiencies.
So sure, farmed chickens are probably very different from the wild chickens they’re descended from. But farmed chickens aren’t raised in the conditions we’ve been breeding them in for millennia.
I’m sure you treat your animals well.
There’s a weird power law thing where the majority of meat comes from very few companies with massive scale. It could both be the case that most farmers treat their animals well and most meat comes from tortured animals. most farmers do not produce most meat.
Curious to hear more about your experience. The post new-deal demand-planning stuff like paying farmers to produce less—is this a thing that actually happens? How much do you think welfare concerns will hurt farmer productivity? Do you see a path forward for farmers to make more money while also treating animals better, perhaps by producing higher-quality agriculture as Japan has done?